What is "depression"?

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Nice, very concise explanation of what clinical depression feels like

Greetings Pensieve, from one antipodean to another, across the ditch..

When I read what you write, I get a sense of someone who has a very powerful intellect and tremendous powers of concentration. And what you wrote was very interesting. The addition of bipolar to the mix of depression (so to speak) is the part you acutely understand, and I don't. So what I wrote before needs to be taken in that context (which I didn't think of at the time).

Certainly Jung has been one of the many influences in my thinking over the decades; and also James Hillman, "psychologist of the soul".

Now in my 60s, there is no way of knowing whether another great dark depression will happen to me. I suspect that it probably will. The difference is how I feel and think about that, compared to say 20 years ago.

Years ago, when the darkness fell, all I wanted was a solution that took the pain of being in total despair away. I didn't want a solution that actually required me to change anything about what I thought, or did, or believed, or how I lived, or loved. And then in later life I changed everything and nothing was ever the same after that, the darkness still came sometimes, though it was then like meeting an old foe whom I had gained great respect for.

(I am speaking entirely of my own experience here, not saying this is what anyone else should do).

I'm very sorry that psychiatrist was such a lout.  To attempt to use or exploit a human being in a vulnerable position who is coming to you for help, is the very opposite of the humanist values the profession is suppose to stand for.

I once heard the phrase the "people who gravitate to the field," and I think there's a lot to that.

That's probably the best description I have heard, sadley I tick most of thises boxes at the current time as am depressed but starting to seek help.

I agree Aardvark.

Let's suppose that you wanted a career which would give you power and control over other people - that your dominant goal was to exercise that. You might choose politics, or psychiatry, as the fast-track options which maximise the potential to control and manipulate others. (In former times, religion, but the exposure of the paedophilia and abuse has exposed that route).

Psychiatry doesn't screen itself for the narcissists and sociopaths in its ranks. And if it did, how small a percentage might be left after the weeding out??!

This pretty much sums it up. I'm not suicidal, but I used to self injure.

And even when therapy goes well, it's kind of the professional norm for the therapist to not display emotions nor really engage in the emotional side of the conversation.

So, if I'm talking about some crisis in my life, the therapist is going to sit there like an emotional cipher or a complete stone face? And ask me to summarize my emotions in abstract, intellectual terms. And this is suppose to be helpful how?

Maybe the purpose of therapy is to knock down people who have big egos. But that seems risky even for people who do have big egos. And what about the rest of us?

To me, a more helpful approach for therapy or counseling to give the client a good chance to improve his or her life circumstances in the coming weeks and months is ---> to primarily play to strength and be matter-of-fact about any deficiencies. And I don't know why this is so rare. Maybe it's too simple.

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Maybe (I think being somewhat charitable!) 30% of mental health professionals are good. And perhaps some more have somewhat limited skills where they are sometimes helpful, sometimes not.

I think we need skills on our part on how to move to the side so to speak in response to a therapy or counseling situation which just feels like it's not all that helpful.

I found it quite a good read no apologies necessary. I agree with much of what you said when it comes to society and people in general. And I have come to the conclusion that being alone is who I am and who I am supposed to be. I can't stand incessant chatter and the generally tiresome and idiotic bantering of society in general. When I have to go out it generally pegs my annoy-o-meter in rather short order. Mind you I don't mind a good conversation on an interesting topic as long as it is truly informative and not just a bunch of annoying fluff just for conversations sake. I prefer my alone and quiet time and hate intrusions upon it.

Your advice on diet is rather late coming for me I am afraid. Much of the damage is already done and I fear irreversible. I will make some healthy changes and try to stem the physical deterioration but reversing it I find rather unlikely. There comes a point of no return where once one passes it, some of the damage is permanent and must be accepted.

As to technological gadgets and toys, they are my hobby and passion. I don't let them get away with running my life but I do like restoring and repairing vintage technology. Radios in particular and audio equipment. I especially enjoy the audio equipment as music is a big part of my life and I think it would have ended long ago if not for music's ability to calm my depression somewhat. I do admit to being morbidly depressed however but little I can do situationally at the moment caring for a parent of advanced age and what goes with that.

Once present situations resolve I hope to become mostly a hermit traveling about the country with no real place to call home save for where I choose to spend the night. I want to enjoy nature and peacefulness and see things as I have never seen them since a child. I intend on camping in remote places where most choose not to go as they cannot do without their telly and internet. (I always wondered about those types, lets go traveling and camping and all they do is stay in the RV and watch the telly, play vid games, text, etc).

Anyhow I need to find a way out of this depression. I feel morbidly depressed if there be such a thing and the meds given haven't helped that I can tell.

I can highly recommend The Edge Effect (book) for depression that doesn't respond to prescription medications. Check it out online if you are interested, Eric Braverman is the author.

I have heard of caretaker fatigue, and I think things can go way beyond that. And if you try to go through the bureaucratic steps to get help from an agency, well, there might be some officious person who asks questions as if you're doing it all wrong, when you're most probably doing a lot of things right, and at the end of this rainbow, maybe, maaaybe they'll provide someone to help out a grand total of two afternoons a week. How motivational can that be?

Perhaps check with a local church, even if you are a good agnostic?

I have not yet tried antidepressants during my struggles.

But I kind of favor them, as one positive avenue among many. And my personal plan if things get bad is 5 for 5. Five different antidepressants over the course of five months. Or, alright, some doctors may want to try a medicine for eight weeks, so I'm willing to stretch it to seven months. And from what I've read, this is how the game is played, and won. And I tell myself that's merely my Vegas over/under! And hopefully, be prepared to take a deep breath and keep trying different ones. Now, I have read the odds are actually somewhat higher than 50% with a series of five. So, good.

And also, it is sometimes important to phase down from an antidepressant in a series of steps, even if it doesn't seem to be working just that your body may have gotten used to it.

Now, all this applies to SSRIs and similar. There's even an autobiography where prosac did not work for the person but zoloft did, just that everyone's biochem tends to be a little different and that can have an effect.
Hello to All That: A Memoir of Zoloft, War, and Peace, by John Falk

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Now, there's another school of thought that some episodes of depression happen when areas of the brain are too active, the rumitative, the big questions of philosophy, the turning back to self. There's been some experimental work with psilocybin (magic mushrooms). Ouch! yeah, serious stuff. Apparently, reduces bloodflow to posterior cingulate cortex and binds in the place of serotonin which dampens down these areas. The effect seems to be for a matter of weeks running to months. Obviously all the standard provisos, where legal, under doctor's supervision, and be pretty careful. It is one more thing which I think people have the right to know about, as experimental as it may be.

And also the Bertrand Russell approach, or it might have been someone else pretty alright who said, I'm not interested in finding "the meaning of life" (all caps, ponderous). Rather, I'm interested in finding meanings within life.

I am somewhat open to the idea that depression can be a time of spiritual growth. And even the idea that with the really bad things in life, like getting cancer or like being a prisoner of war, to make the best of the situation. I mean, what else can a person do? The zen idea of viewing bad things as texture of life and embracing them as adventure.

But I'm not sure I'm so crazy about this in response to bad family situations, such as family members being engaged in scorpions-in-the-bottle situations, or where one family member sometimes a parent essentially wages war against another, or where the non-abusive parent covers up abuse because it would be too inconvenient to do something about it, all of which are at least relatively common. I don't know. It seems like sanity outside the family is the best opening in such cases.

Ok Bumble, don't take this the wrong way but all your advice makes me out to be some kind of imbecile who wouldn't know to do that stuff already.

You also don't know what my diet is. You don't know that I have food sensitives that make me have to avoid certain foods so I don't get a reaction from them.

Sleep? I have bipolar disorder and a severe anxiety disorder. Sometimes it's good to feel manic too so who wants to go to sleep earlier when they are feeling so great?

Diet and sleep does not cure bipolar disorder. They can make the symptoms easier to manage, just like abstaining from alcohol can.

I have hypoglycemia too so I'm not allowed to enjoy rich foods high in sugar.

I know you didn't realize it, but I always get told to change my diet and it's really really annoying. My finances are so poor (or rather my anxiety about said finances is so high) that I can't even afford to eat properly.

I know all that stuff about exposure to blue light before you go to sleep too.

I should add I also have Pathological Demand Avoidance syndrome which makes me resist following orders because of the high anxiety it gives me. I've had that since I was a little kid. No diet or exercise regime will cure it. Ritalin kept it at bay for awhile.

I think I can sort of understand that. I think when you're in a less than ideal situation it's harder to cope during times of depression, which unfortunately I often find myself in. I know what I have to do to change but my panic disorder is getting in the way of healing and I can't get anyone else to help me. I suppose I have to face a lot of my fears to be able to overcome many of my problems, or at least manage them better. At least my depression doesn't last that long. I always come out of it and have time to think how I'm really feeling and what I should do.