Curious about a conversation I had today

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skibum
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06 Jun 2014, 10:38 am

Adamantium wrote:

Doctors are famous for this. They get lost in the technical detail that they have learned and forget the human in front of them.

http://www.hopkinsmedicine.org/news/med ... n_training
http://well.blogs.nytimes.com/2009/01/2 ... blogs&_r=0
http://www.medschool.vcu.edu/stories/bedside.html


I think this perfectly describes what I was feeling in that conversation.


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skibum
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06 Jun 2014, 10:39 am

eggheadjr wrote:
The teacher sounds like a number of people I've met:

Out to save the world, not interested in listening past 10 seconds to what others might have to say, feeling good because they just know they're saving the world.

No wonder I still bang my head against the wall as a grown adult. 8O
This also absolutely is exactly what I was feeling.


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skibum
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06 Jun 2014, 10:50 am

I guess a good way for me to summarize and kind of explain it is:

You, meaning that person and people like that person, are having a conversation with me that you initiated without invitation, which is actually fine with me, about my condition and you are asking me questions to further your cause about my condition, which you claim is to benefit me and those like me, and yet you have no interest in anything that I or those like me have to say or how we think or feel about our condition. The only interest you have is in how I can help further your agenda to deal with a condition that I have which you have decided, with no understanding or input from people like me, that you think is a bad thing to have. And yes, there are plenty of us who would rather not have it but you are making this decision with no desire to have our input on it. You make me feel completely invisible and like I, as a person, don't matter at all except to help you with your agenda to figure out how to prevent a condition that I have. And you don't care that I may not want my condition gotten rid of.

I think that is what I was feeling and why I had feelings of anger and discomfort.


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Waterfalls
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06 Jun 2014, 11:04 am

skibum wrote:
I guess a good way for me to summarize and kind of explain it is:

You, meaning that person and people like that person, are having a conversation with me that you initiated without invitation, which is actually fine with me, about my condition and you are asking me questions to further your cause about my condition, which you claim is to benefit me and those like me, and yet you have no interest in anything that I or those like me have to say or how we think or feel about our condition. The only interest you have is in how I can help further your agenda to deal with a condition that I have which you have decided, with no understanding or input from people like me, that you think is a bad thing to have. And yes, there are plenty of us who would rather not have it but you are making this decision with no desire to have our input on it. You make me feel completely invisible and like I, as a person don't matter at all except to help you with your agenda to figure out how to prevent a condition that I have. And you don't care that I may not want my condition gotten rid of.

I think that is what I was feeling and why I had feelings of anger and discomfort.

That is kind of what I was trying to say. That in a world where I am labeled insensitive and inconsiderate of others feelings over such things as taking literally an invitation to continue talking when someone wants to move on with their day, it is stunningly painful to encounter my unreality to most other people as they ignore my existence or needs. Not everyone, just when it happens, stunningly painful but also confusing because the person isn't trying to do harm so an angry response will just get them mad and me upset. So pretty helpless when it happens.

Was trying to say think I know what you mean because have had similar encounters.



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06 Jun 2014, 11:08 am

Waterfalls wrote:
skibum wrote:
I guess a good way for me to summarize and kind of explain it is:

You, meaning that person and people like that person, are having a conversation with me that you initiated without invitation, which is actually fine with me, about my condition and you are asking me questions to further your cause about my condition, which you claim is to benefit me and those like me, and yet you have no interest in anything that I or those like me have to say or how we think or feel about our condition. The only interest you have is in how I can help further your agenda to deal with a condition that I have which you have decided, with no understanding or input from people like me, that you think is a bad thing to have. And yes, there are plenty of us who would rather not have it but you are making this decision with no desire to have our input on it. You make me feel completely invisible and like I, as a person don't matter at all except to help you with your agenda to figure out how to prevent a condition that I have. And you don't care that I may not want my condition gotten rid of.

I think that is what I was feeling and why I had feelings of anger and discomfort.

That is kind of what I was trying to say. That in a world where I am labeled insensitive and inconsiderate of others feelings over such things as taking literally an invitation to continue talking when someone wants to move on with their day, it is stunningly painful to encounter my unreality to most other people as they ignore my existence or needs. Not everyone, just when it happens, stunningly painful but also confusing because the person isn't trying to do harm so an angry response will just get them mad and me upset. So pretty helpless when it happens.

Was trying to say think I know what you mean because have had similar encounters.

Thank you for explaining Waterfalls. I am glad that you understand this. It can be difficult sometimes with such people. And I think like you said, confused is a great word for how I felt in this situation. That is probably the best word to label what I was feeling, very confused. Confused and frustrated by the person's seeming interest yet complete lack of interest at the same time.

Thank you for taking the time to try to clarify what you said earlier because sometimes it can be a little difficult for me to understand certain things and I really appreciate when people can have the patience with me to help me understand them.


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Waterfalls
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06 Jun 2014, 12:01 pm

Thank you for giving me a chance to try to explain better, Skibum!

I like coming on WR, people are sometimes a lot more patient with me trying to communicate here. So I appreciate that, a lot.



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06 Jun 2014, 1:09 pm

I was thinking about this a little more and it is hard to clearly explain what is going wrong with someone whom on one level wants to help.

I guess in one word it is dehumanization, which some have already mentioned.

There is also a tendency for NTs, once they know you have ASD to classify you as somewhat mentally incompetent and not value your opinion.

In the example Skibum gave, to the teacher, autistics were defective humans off the assembly line. The solution to her was to fix the assembly line. There was nothing much to be done with or learned from the defective humans.

Clinical analysis has its place, but please be honest and tactful enough to call it what it is and ask for volunteers or pay people to come in and be analyzed for research. To treat people in public or social situations like this is very demeaning.

We are just as human as they, with feelings, often raw from repeated injury, and in many if not most things just as competent, and perhaps even sharper in certain areas.



kraftiekortie
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06 Jun 2014, 1:17 pm

I forgot to say Hi, Skibum!



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06 Jun 2014, 1:33 pm

skibum wrote:
perpetual_padawan wrote:
skibum wrote:
How does science prevent something that is so far thought of as neurological wiring differences?
I told the person, we are not sick it's just our neurology is different. And they responded by asking what causes the neurology because we need to find out what causes it. So I asked in return, "What causes your neurology?" They never answered my question but only insisted further that the cause of Autistic neurology should be found out so that we can find a way to prevent it or fix it.

I think uncomfortable is a great way to describe what I was feeling. I felt like there was something wrong with me, not different but wrong, something that needed to be eradicated like Polio or the plague.


Tell them we have bigger brains and more brain cells. So there. http://abcnews.go.com/Health/autistic-b ... d=14907794


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06 Jun 2014, 1:37 pm

I thought of another interpretation. The person is on the spectrum, is embarrassed about it and wants a cure for themselves. The person clearly did not seem to understand that it was possible that another person had different feeling, only focused on a narrow part of autism and not the big picture.

I still think the most likely option is the person is just rude and sees you/us a lesser then "normal" people.

I think you eventually reacted the way I would have. Confusion about emotions and delayed emotions is common with me.


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kraftiekortie
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06 Jun 2014, 3:12 pm

I still think the guy has to be educated.

I guess what I'm advocating is for people to channel their anger toward educating ignorant people, rather than bemoaning their ignorance.



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06 Jun 2014, 4:22 pm

To put it lightly, what a **********


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skibum
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06 Jun 2014, 5:19 pm

kraftiekortie wrote:
I forgot to say Hi, Skibum!
Hi Kraftie :D


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06 Jun 2014, 6:24 pm

I would feel angry too skibum, I would probably be livid and I might have actually told the guy off if I could have found the words to do it. But I imagine it would stun me too much to even know what to say. People like that don't want to listen anyway, what a jerk.