Page 2 of 4 [ 61 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4  Next

Jabberwokky
Velociraptor
Velociraptor

User avatar

Joined: 27 Aug 2012
Age: 58
Gender: Male
Posts: 477

09 Jul 2014, 7:18 am

Remarkable. I read your post as per the link you provided A really brilliant post. I'm very interested in the part about how innovators have little or no control over their innovations. We are all both empowered and limited by our social, political and economic contexts. We are not born into a level playing field. I'm truly grateful that I happened to be born to a position of reasonable opportunity.

To quote you, we are "the glue between the concrete physical world and the abstract social world of primates". In this, we have a purpose and a mechanism to survive. We are unlikely to ever rise to the top of society but we are indispensable at the same time. I can live with that because I don't really care for fame or fortune. In my view, the most famous of us will be unknown in the vastness of cosmic time. Our purpose is not about fame, fortune or acccumulating wealth and status in this life. What matters to me is that I'm not tortured, imprisoned or unduly stopped from "Being".

I think the power of information technology to free us from the yolk of the social tyranny is really just a temporary phenomenon. What Edward Snowden leaked suggests a harnessing of that exact same technology to control society to an extent never experienced before. If all ends badly and I'm likely to recede to the hills ,learn how to manufacture paper (the opposite of electronic media) and distribute politically explosive diatribes on paper (the old way).


_________________
On a clear day you can see forever


kraftiekortie
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 4 Feb 2014
Gender: Male
Posts: 87,510
Location: Queens, NYC

09 Jul 2014, 8:40 am

I'm a pure egalitarian. I don't believe in hierarchy, whatsoever.



KingdomOfRats
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 31 Oct 2005
Age: 42
Gender: Female
Posts: 4,833
Location: f'ton,manchester UK

09 Jul 2014, 9:13 am

am completely blind to hierarchy and see all people as the same object and worth, am also blind to other things as well including race which am unable to visualy process and discriminate between another person of a different colour,different topic though.


_________________
>severely autistic.
>>the residential autist; http://theresidentialautist.blogspot.co.uk
blogging from the view of an ex institutionalised autism/ID activist now in community care.
>>>help to keep bullying off our community,report it!


jbw
Velociraptor
Velociraptor

User avatar

Joined: 13 Dec 2013
Age: 61
Gender: Male
Posts: 421

09 Jul 2014, 9:53 am

kraftiekortie wrote:
I'm a pure egalitarian. I don't believe in hierarchy, whatsoever.

This autistic perspective gives me hope.



olympiadis
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 20 Jun 2014
Gender: Male
Posts: 1,849
Location: Fairview Heights Illinois

09 Jul 2014, 1:15 pm

I believe strongly that in humans, social hierarchies evolved first in females, being one of the first and primary roots of the "hive-mind", the set of imaginary algorithms that control almost every aspect of our society today.
Why did this happen?
For the purpose of reproductive control.
In our species females have ultimate reproductive control.
We don't always see this ultimate control on the surface, but it is there.
Hierarchies are a development and inevitability of binary logic used to sort both things and possibilities (imaginary things).

Because males learned to also strive for control from their mothers, other females, or other males, the process quickly followed suit within males, though at a secondary level that is more obvious, though less powerful ultimately.

I'll use just one quick example.

In a certain sub-culture, males compete aggressively to acquire possessions such as certain types of automobiles and large shiny wheels in order to advance within imaginary hierarchies. This is ultimately tied back to the reproductive control of the female.

It is obvious in the male peacock that the male has compromised his own individual survival for a gamble of advancing within a female determined hierarchy. Dawkins describes this process in "The Selfish Gene" in terms of genetic algorithms. Later Dawkins describes a very similar process in terms of memetics, that are algorithms contained completely within the human imagination.



Janissy
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 5 May 2009
Age: 59
Gender: Female
Posts: 6,450
Location: x

09 Jul 2014, 1:57 pm

olympiadis wrote:
In a certain sub-culture, males compete aggressively to acquire possessions such as certain types of automobiles and large shiny wheels in order to advance within imaginary hierarchies. This is ultimately tied back to the reproductive control of the female.
.


A quote from the movie Scarface
Quote:
Tony Montana: In this country, you gotta make the money first. Then when you get the money, you get the power. Then when you get the power, then you get the women.



olympiadis
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 20 Jun 2014
Gender: Male
Posts: 1,849
Location: Fairview Heights Illinois

09 Jul 2014, 2:57 pm

Janissy wrote:
Tony Montana: In this country, you gotta make the money first. Then when you get the money, you get the power. Then when you get the power, then the women get you, the power, and the money.


fixed.



Magnanimous
Toucan
Toucan

User avatar

Joined: 5 Nov 2012
Age: 42
Gender: Male
Posts: 292
Location: London

09 Jul 2014, 5:09 pm

... Pretty much.

Generalising somewhat... but basically there is just me... and then there is everyone else.
And on the whole I'm indifferent to everyone else as long as they don't interfere in my business. They usually do. I consider them scum for doing so.



olympiadis
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 20 Jun 2014
Gender: Male
Posts: 1,849
Location: Fairview Heights Illinois

09 Jul 2014, 6:05 pm

Magnanimous wrote:
Generalising somewhat... but basically there is just me... and then there is everyone else.
And on the whole I'm indifferent to everyone else as long as they don't interfere in my business. They usually do. I consider them scum for doing so.


+1



Davvo7
Toucan
Toucan

User avatar

Joined: 2 Mar 2013
Age: 63
Gender: Male
Posts: 286
Location: UK

10 Jul 2014, 10:46 am

I have this, and is deeply problematic when you have an insecure or egotistical manager who INSISTS that everybody respect the hierarchy. I was made redundant because of it last month. Deeply frustrating that somebody would think a job title entitles them to be spoken to or dealt with differently from somebody else.


_________________
Moomintroll sighed. He felt sad even though he had no real reason to feel that way.


CyclopsSummers
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 21 Jun 2008
Age: 39
Gender: Male
Posts: 3,172
Location: The Netherlands

10 Jul 2014, 12:48 pm

Davvo7 wrote:
I have this, and is deeply problematic when you have an insecure or egotistical manager who INSISTS that everybody respect the hierarchy. I was made redundant because of it last month. Deeply frustrating that somebody would think a job title entitles them to be spoken to or dealt with differently from somebody else.

At the factory where I worked in the first half of 2011, I had a nasty run-in with an older lady who had worked there for nigh 20 years and who held a lot of authority on the workfloor despite not holding any rank like 'floor manager' or anything like that.

At the end of our shift, I wanted to make peace with her, and I said to her: "We're both strong-willed individuals, but I still respect you a lot. This will not be the last time we butt heads."

Guess what? It was the last time we butted heads! A week later, I was told that I only had 2 more weeks on the job! My contract was not being renewed. :P
The excuse they made for this was that my "production output was insufficient". I call BS!


_________________
clarity of thought before rashness of action


Davvo7
Toucan
Toucan

User avatar

Joined: 2 Mar 2013
Age: 63
Gender: Male
Posts: 286
Location: UK

10 Jul 2014, 1:04 pm

kraftiekortie wrote:
I'm a pure egalitarian. I don't believe in hierarchy, whatsoever.


I wish you were my boss!! ! You would have a line of us around the block to work for you with your outlook on the workplace - and I still believe we would could the job done.


_________________
Moomintroll sighed. He felt sad even though he had no real reason to feel that way.


Jabberwokky
Velociraptor
Velociraptor

User avatar

Joined: 27 Aug 2012
Age: 58
Gender: Male
Posts: 477

11 Jul 2014, 3:17 am

Davvo7 wrote:
kraftiekortie wrote:
I'm a pure egalitarian. I don't believe in hierarchy, whatsoever.


I wish you were my boss!! ! You would have a line of us around the block to work for you with your outlook on the workplace - and I still believe we would could the job done.


The most enjoyable thing about having hierarchical blindness is when you get to be in charge because people think you are a 'cool boss'. There are some pitfalls involved because those that report to you can be really crafty and as a person with all manner of social blindness, you have no idea its happening.


_________________
On a clear day you can see forever


Davvo7
Toucan
Toucan

User avatar

Joined: 2 Mar 2013
Age: 63
Gender: Male
Posts: 286
Location: UK

11 Jul 2014, 5:30 am

Very true, I hadn't really thought of that. Mind you if we were all the same, it wouldn't be an issue :)

To pick up on the post from Olympiadis, interestingly, I have always worked better in a female led workplace. I guess I don't really fit the macho stereotype so maybe I don't challenge them; or more likely women use their brains better than men!! ! They haven't been as bothered about hierarchies as the male bosses and have appreciated my work far more.

Is that something others have found? I ask as it is something I am going to take into account when looking for my next job.



Alita
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 21 Oct 2013
Age: 37
Gender: Female
Posts: 924
Location: Surrounded by water

11 Jul 2014, 8:33 am

B19 wrote:
Some women - particularly Queen Bee types - are heavily into hierarchy. I've had quite a few jobs and the worst for this were women bosses, and I experienced far more bullying from them than from male bosses overall. (I am a woman). The women were also pettier, sneakier, underhand and far more malicious. Not that all the males were angels.. though they were more upfront about their communication and thoughts.


I'm tired of Queen Bees. It's exhausting having to suck up to someone just because they're older and uglier.


_________________
"There once was a little molecule who dreamed of being part of the crest of a great wave..."
(From the story 'The Little Molecule' - Amazon Kindle, 2013)


Dillogic
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 24 Nov 2011
Gender: Male
Posts: 9,339

11 Jul 2014, 9:08 am

I think the second worst thing done on all of us is the concept of hierarchy.