The empathy question - once more.
Well, not necessarily a speed test. But a limitation with processing Complex Information.
There are some interesting papers and books that describe autism as a disorder of Complex Information Processing.
Here <click> is one such paper.
Dr. Valerie Gaus in ?Cognitive-Behavioral Therapy for Adult Asperger Syndrome? provides a model explaining how these deficits with processing complex information leads to other mental health issues (including, but not limited to, anxiety and depression). You can view this here <click>.
For me, these help explain my various issues, including difficulties with empathy.
Usage - From the Oxford Dictionary Empathy vs. Sympathy
People often confuse the words empathy and sympathy. Empathy means ?the ability to understand and share the feelings of another? (as in ?both authors have the skill to make you feel empathy with their heroines?), whereas sympathy means ?feelings of pity and sorrow for someone else?s misfortune? (as in ?they had great sympathy for the flood victims?).
http://www.oxforddictionaries.com/defin ... sh/empathy
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Personally I thought empathy would be the one area where I would not fit the common Aspie/Autistic profile - But when taking this exam:
http://aspietests.org/eq/index.php
I ended up with this result:
\
Test taken by you on 22 July 2014 21.0
The average score for males with ASD (132 people took this test) 23.4
The average score for females with ASD (144 people took this test) 21.9
The average score for males with suspected ASD (914 people took this test) 20.0
The average score for females with suspected ASD (1497 people took this test) 23.8
The average score for male neurotypicals (389 people took this test) 36.2
The average score for female neurotypicals (607 people took this test) 42.4
-- So I see according to this test that I am less empathetic than the average male with ASD. I thought to myself, "how can this be?" I donate to charities. I have personally sacrificed so unfortunate people could have a little more. Hell, I vote Democratic. How can I not be empathetic? I suppose it should be noted that a person can be compassionate, sympathetic and quite willing to help others - but not necessarily very empathetic which requires an ability to spontaneously and intuitively understand what and how someone else is thinking and feeling.
_________________
"Everyone is a genius. But if you judge a fish by its ability to climb a tree it will live its whole life believing that it is stupid."
- Albert Einstein
Exactly. Also, the inability to do the above, is considered limitation with processing Complex Information.
btbnnyr
Veteran
Joined: 18 May 2011
Gender: Female
Posts: 7,359
Location: Lost Angleles Carmen Santiago
The complex information processing hypothesis makes little sense to me.
It contradicts most data from studies by researchers who don't already think that autism is a disorder of complex information processing.
_________________
Drain and plane and grain and blain your brain, and then again,
Propane and butane out of the gas main, your blain shall sustain!
It contradicts most data from studies by researchers who don't already think that autism is a disorder of complex information processing.
btbnnyr - Can you direct me towards some of those studies? I would be interested in reading them and learning more.
As a note, I had always been ?attracted? to the hypothesis, as it seemed to explain my particular situation quite well. Interestingly, if the hypothesis is incorrect, it could validate some of that skepticism that has been lingering over the past year or so (as my diagnosis seemed to be partially based upon some apparent nonverbal reasoning weaknesses which supposedly limits my ability to process information in complex, unstructured, novel situations).
"an ability to spontaneously and intuitively understand what and how someone else is thinking and feeling."
Well if that's what empathy is, then yes, I don't have it. But I feel compassion, I guess that is going
to have to be enough. People seem to think that if you don't have empathy you can't have anything
and must be some kind of monster
But wait......if an NT does not spontaneously and intuitively understand me, does that mean they
don't have empathy? No, it means I am too strange.
Heads I win, tails you lose ![]()
_________________
"Aspie: 65/200
NT: 155/200
You are very likely neurotypical"
Changed score with attention to health. Still have AS traits and also some difficulties.
But wait......if an NT does not spontaneously and intuitively understand me, does that mean they
don't have empathy? No, it means I am too strange.
Heads I win, tails you lose
Exactly. In order to intuitively understand what and how someone else is thinking or feeling, a person must have the same emotional and cognitive profile themselves. If a person typically has different thoughts and feelings that are out of the norm, she lacks the basic material upon which the intuition must be built.
But wait......if an NT does not spontaneously and intuitively understand me, does that mean they
don't have empathy? No, it means I am too strange.
Heads I win, tails you lose
Exactly. In order to intuitively understand what and how someone else is thinking or feeling, a person must have the same emotional and cognitive profile themselves. If a person typically has different thoughts and feelings that are out of the norm, she lacks the basic material upon which the intuition must be built.
Bless you starkid.
I sometimes wonder if just being different could be enough to explain everything that follows, if you are consistently different
throughout decades of experience.
_________________
"Aspie: 65/200
NT: 155/200
You are very likely neurotypical"
Changed score with attention to health. Still have AS traits and also some difficulties.
I think of empathy as imaging you are that person. "walk a day in their shoes" and respond to them in that way. I see an employee annoyed at the cash register and my immediate reaction is to respond negatively to them. But if I imagine what may be causing them to act that way (they are having a bad day like many I have had) then I can relate and maybe I will smile and say thank you instead. They may just need a smile from someone to take a deep breath and move on. I give them the benefit of the doubt that they are not just a jerk.
_________________
Married to a undiagnosed Aspie and have 2 kids on the spectrum.
But wait......if an NT does not spontaneously and intuitively understand me, does that mean they
don't have empathy? No, it means I am too strange.
Heads I win, tails you lose
Exactly. In order to intuitively understand what and how someone else is thinking or feeling, a person must have the same emotional and cognitive profile themselves. If a person typically has different thoughts and feelings that are out of the norm, she lacks the basic material upon which the intuition must be built.
Not always. I may have no idea what someone is really feeling but I can still imagine and try to relate. I may be wrong but at least I tried.
_________________
Married to a undiagnosed Aspie and have 2 kids on the spectrum.
btbnnyr
Veteran
Joined: 18 May 2011
Gender: Female
Posts: 7,359
Location: Lost Angleles Carmen Santiago
The ability to implicitly understand spontaneously, intuitively, and quickly what someone else is thinking during interaction is social cognition, which is lacking in autism. This implicit understanding is not like neurotypicals are stating in their heads, "Person A is thinking this, and Person B is feeling that". That is what autistics might do if they had trained themselves to read people. Neurotypicals just have the social behavioral responses that indicate that they implicitly understand without having the understanding be a conscious process. For complex social situations, neurotypicals also have to think about what the other people are thinking.
_________________
Drain and plane and grain and blain your brain, and then again,
Propane and butane out of the gas main, your blain shall sustain!
Right, the connection is on the subconscious or intuitive level, so happening without effort, like a fish swimming in a school.
But wait......if an NT does not spontaneously and intuitively understand me, does that mean they
don't have empathy? No, it means I am too strange.
Heads I win, tails you lose
Exactly. In order to intuitively understand what and how someone else is thinking or feeling, a person must have the same emotional and cognitive profile themselves. If a person typically has different thoughts and feelings that are out of the norm, she lacks the basic material upon which the intuition must be built.
Not always. I may have no idea what someone is really feeling but I can still imagine and try to relate. I may be wrong but at least I tried.
Not always what? I have no idea what you are saying.
But wait......if an NT does not spontaneously and intuitively understand me, does that mean they
don't have empathy? No, it means I am too strange.
Heads I win, tails you lose
Exactly. In order to intuitively understand what and how someone else is thinking or feeling, a person must have the same emotional and cognitive profile themselves. If a person typically has different thoughts and feelings that are out of the norm, she lacks the basic material upon which the intuition must be built.
Not always. I may have no idea what someone is really feeling but I can still imagine and try to relate. I may be wrong but at least I tried.
Not always what? I have no idea what you are saying.
Not always as in one does not always have to have the same emotional and cognitive profile as the other person to intuitively understand what someone else is thinking/feeling.
_________________
Married to a undiagnosed Aspie and have 2 kids on the spectrum.

