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rvacountrysinger
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05 Sep 2014, 2:56 pm

I resent some of the autism "pride" that seems to be just as bad as someone who is an NT who bullies others for being autistic. I don't think anyone should feel superior because they are not NT. I certainly do not. I would give anything to be able to make decent eye contact with someone. I can't even see their eye color because I can't look them in the eye, which causes me mental anguish. Unless they are at least 50 feet away then I can look them in the eye. But I feel that I miss out on a lot because of social interaction being such a task and a chore. I can barely get by in the workplace.



PaulHubert
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05 Sep 2014, 7:16 pm

Sweetleaf wrote:
PaulHubert wrote:
I don't want to "be" NT, but I want to have adequate NT skill sets where I am weak so I can live a healthy and normal lifestyle; growing is important, people who don't don't live a fulfilling life and don't tend to contribute much to society in their lifetime.

I don't appreciate aspies who say "I refuse to edit myself"...yet still complain about having a severe social deficit. Being considerate of others applies to everyone, even if it entails changing yourself just a bit.


Being considerate of others and trying to be more NT are not the same thing.

Also why is a normal lifestyle considered growing, what is wrong with abnormal lifestyles? Also how do you define contributing to society?


They aren't the same, but I've heard enough of "I need to dominate the conversation for my anxiety" and "sorry, I have a temper problem (nothing I can do about it)" to know that there's a group of people out their who believe there IS an excuse for being an a**hole, and that they owe it to nobody do do anything about it. There are a ton of eccentric (ie abnormal) things I will let slide without a second thought, I don't care if you if you have odd stims, can't understand sarcasm, or decline half of my RSVPs; but there is one thing I can't stand and it is ME people who never change and stay ME people.

To my other point:

Their is a simple blueprint for a "successful person", constant improvement, and a willingness to address one's biggest weaknesses (not nessesarily be average in their biggest weaknesses). Read every self-help book on cognitive behavior therapy, talk to any therapist or counselor, they'll say something to the tune of doing something unpleasant and against what they are comfortable and naturally good at in route to being a better person and having a better life.

"I'm better off doing it my way, everyone else can kick rocks, I'm happy and that's all that matters." there's your reason for our sky-high divorce rate and our generation's notorious lack of empathy; teamwork gets s**t done in society, and people who make an effort to communicate and complete tasks in a way that works for most people are the biggest contributors. Technology innovations, social marketing projects, entrepeneurship; they start with people who do it their way.



olympiadis
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05 Sep 2014, 9:13 pm

Edna3362 wrote:
But here's the question: What's the difference between an aspie who doesn't want a 'cure' or being an NT, and those who are willingly want to be an NT? What distinguishes them aside from their reasons of their desire of being one with the NT?
I would like to know their weaknesses, morals, strengths, views in life, spirituality, their sexuality, etc. in general. Like which of them do they care about humanity more? Or which of them is more of a bully?


I think the biggest basic difference lies in the individual's amount of attachment to identity. The more attached to identity, the stronger the urge to fit in socially.
It may seem like the opposite at first until you realize that identity is a software that allows one to be part of a larger system, and has little to do with individuality. A true individual has no real need for an identity.

The identity software will download or copy whatever ideas that society approves of at the time.
The weakness is similar to that of a drug addict. The NT or person attached to identity is willing to do anything to gain social acceptance, even if it is a psychopathic act.
The identity is self serving and the ends justifies the means.
There you have most of your answers.

If you doubt what I have said, then please read up on Stanley Milgram's (shock a stranger) experiment, otherwise known as the Eichmann experiment or Eichmann effect.

This social acceptance is what many of the aspies/curebies desire. Of course there are exceptions. Many of them would just wish to avoid the punishments of not fitting in, or to ease some other physical discomfort.

You would have to assess on an individual basis. Expect to discover significant individual differences, motives, and intents when dealing with aspies.



Spectacles
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06 Sep 2014, 12:51 pm

Edna3362 wrote:
The question isn't about who wants to be an NT.

The question is the general differences between an aspie who is a curebie, and an aspie who doesn't want to be an NT... excluding their wants or reasons to be an NT/reasons not to be an NT respectively. Like which of either aspies are likely to be more depressed, or accepted, or happier, and so on...


If the world were well informed and consequently accomodating towards ASD personalities, I think that there would not even be talk of "curing ASD". BUT, we are no where close to that ideal, so we're stuck with a world that identifies ASD traits as deviant, rebellious, self-centered, etc. When everyone calls you this, and "everyone" is your point of reference, then you will come to accept those identifiers as part of your identity, a restricting and debilitating point of view to hold. We live in a world of many mixed experiences, however my experience of ASD resembles the latter much more than the former. Chronic depression runs in the family, so that skews my experience as well, but I think it would make sense for someone whose identity has been interpreted negatively to be more depressed, less accepted and less happy than the average person. Those interpretations, and subsequent expectations, affect how you interface with people, school, the world, jobs, etc. I do think my life would be more enjoyed if I were NT, but then again, I wouldn't be me anymore if I were NT, so it's a bit of a null issue.

Here are my 2 imaginary, best options: that I'd been "cured" to become an NT, or, even better, that the world would be more accepting and accommodating towards ASD (and other types of) behavior. But, we still haven't "cured" racism, sexism, elitism, etc, which are all issues based on extremely superficial differences, so I'm not too optimistic of the state of the world when it comes to more significant differences such as ASD, schizophrenia, physical handicaps, etc.



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06 Sep 2014, 1:25 pm

I don't want to be an NT. But I do want to acquire any social skills that improve my quality of life. I'm always going to come off to lots of people as a bit weird no matter how good of eye contact I make and how interactive I am in conversation and how much I learn to redirect any of my nervous ticks like stemming. That I don't want to change. But learning to make better eye contact and to be more interactive in my communications and learning how to dissipate excess stress less demonstratively does seem to help me cope with the world a bit better, draw less unwanted attention to myself and improve my quality of life.


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06 Sep 2014, 3:31 pm

PaulHubert wrote:
Sweetleaf wrote:
PaulHubert wrote:
I don't want to "be" NT, but I want to have adequate NT skill sets where I am weak so I can live a healthy and normal lifestyle; growing is important, people who don't don't live a fulfilling life and don't tend to contribute much to society in their lifetime.

I don't appreciate aspies who say "I refuse to edit myself"...yet still complain about having a severe social deficit. Being considerate of others applies to everyone, even if it entails changing yourself just a bit.


Being considerate of others and trying to be more NT are not the same thing.

Also why is a normal lifestyle considered growing, what is wrong with abnormal lifestyles? Also how do you define contributing to society?


They aren't the same, but I've heard enough of "I need to dominate the conversation for my anxiety" and "sorry, I have a temper problem (nothing I can do about it)" to know that there's a group of people out their who believe there IS an excuse for being an as*hole, and that they owe it to nobody do do anything about it. There are a ton of eccentric (ie abnormal) things I will let slide without a second thought, I don't care if you if you have odd stims, can't understand sarcasm, or decline half of my RSVPs; but there is one thing I can't stand and it is ME people who never change and stay ME people.

To my other point:

Their is a simple blueprint for a "successful person", constant improvement, and a willingness to address one's biggest weaknesses (not nessesarily be average in their biggest weaknesses). Read every self-help book on cognitive behavior therapy, talk to any therapist or counselor, they'll say something to the tune of doing something unpleasant and against what they are comfortable and naturally good at in route to being a better person and having a better life.

"I'm better off doing it my way, everyone else can kick rocks, I'm happy and that's all that matters." there's your reason for our sky-high divorce rate and our generation's notorious lack of empathy; teamwork gets s**t done in society, and people who make an effort to communicate and complete tasks in a way that works for most people are the biggest contributors. Technology innovations, social marketing projects, entrepeneurship; they start with people who do it their way.


I have plenty of other issues besides aspergers, but yeah have been in therapy the CBT sort for years off and on starting when I was 15 and its never done me any good, nor have I found a self help book on anything that I actually find useful...however I was doing that stuff for mental problems not to try and become more neurotypical either way still hasn't been helpful thus far...I have done plenty of things I was not entirely comfortable with or went out of my comfort zone still do when I can however I've also over-done it and severely burnt myself out which only causes more problems. So as for life in general yeah not all that hopeful...even with trying to address certain issues, but such is life for now.

Then again I am not arrogant about anything like my way of doing anything, I just refuse to give into the idea that society can just treat certain groups of people like crap so people in those group just have to stop being whatever they are....I have no obligation to stop being on the autism spectrum, I still do my best to be considerate of others but if they don't like that i seem 'odd' because I have aspergers then that is their problem.


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06 Sep 2014, 9:47 pm

I just want people to except me for who I am instead of wanting me to change all the time. At work I'm never good enough, there is always something they want me to improve on. Mostly my communication skills. I'm 43 and I have improved my communications skills over the years but I have reached a point where I'm not able to make anymore improvements. If someone can't understand me then maybe they should just try listening to me. Most of the time people are not even paying attention to what I'm saying. And allot of the times people just don't make sense. Many people are just not very logical most of the time.


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07 Sep 2014, 1:33 am

I would think an introverted personality vs an extroverted personality would have a lot to do with it. Somebody who has a basic natural need for a lot of social interaction but can't get much of it due to lack of natural ability is bound to very frustrated and want a cure that would help them get that ability. A person who gets their basic needs met from solo activities would be more accepting of a neurology that helps them do that.


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