(BAP) Broad Autism Phenotype

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Both of my parents are BAP, as are many of my relatives.
My parents are BAP in different ways, my father having most of the social traits of autism and special interest, and my mother having various sensory traits of autism.
My father is overall more autistic than my mother.
His autistic traits are as strong or stronger than most diagnosed HFA's autistic traits, but he is not diagnosed, so I consider him BAP.

HAA is highly subjective--hence there is much room for equivocation. Especially when we consider the possibility of QHA (quarter-assed autism).

We must be hyper-precise amid all this vagueness.

Many in my maternal family are BAP, including my mom, who I suspect would be diagnosed with ASD if she were assessed. There are also traits in my paternal family.

I don't think that many in the family consider these autistic traits, but just regard their social awkwardness and very restricted interests as quirks and eccentricities. I have not disclosed my diagnosis or my son's with most of my family, but it's evident that the uncle I did talk to about this discussed it widely with others. Several people have subsequently said something along the lines of, "so now we know why you are so weird." And they have suggested that related traits run through the family.

I wish I had at least vaguely autistic people in my family.

EVERYONE is NT, though some are neurotic.

My sister-in-law's sister's daughter's son is diagnosed with HFA.

We just don't have any autism in my family.

We have some who are artists and musicians--but I'm neither. All were "social beings" despite their creativity.

I write poetry, though.

Page 328 of "The Complete Guide..(Attwood)" cites these three observations:

Asperger himself noted that parents, particularly fathers, showed what he called "ghosting" or "shadowing" which would now perhaps be called "BAP".

Volkmar et al 1998 found that 20% of fathers and 5% of mothers of an ASD child had noticeable symptoms

When 2nd and 3rd degree relatives of an ASD child were added in, 66% had symptoms.

So there is a lot of shadowing out there!

Kraftie, you made me think of the professions of my parents and grandparents - some of whom match the professions that many researchers like Baron-Cohen have mentioned and studied:

Paternal grandfather: engineer
Maternal grandfather: engineer
Maternal grandmother: musician and artist
Father: scientist
Father's brother: engineer
Mother: artist (was the most obviously ASD)
...
My sister PhD in science (chemistry)
My other sister has an MA in maths
My daughter: married a scientist who specialises in electrical engineering
My son: works in engineering field...

I'll post a link to Baron-Cohen's stuff when I can get it to work!! !

http://docs.autismresearchcentre.com/pa ... _SciAm.pdf

Last edited by B19 on 16 Dec 2014, 3:32 pm, edited 1 time in total.

I know people who identify as BAP, but the people I know who identify as such don't join here.

I recently read Autism and Aspergers the facts by Simon Baron-Cohen (might start a separate thread on this, lots in there to discuss good and bad), and it mentions BAP.

it certainly chimes with my experience, I think both of my parents have a lot of traits but possibly not enough to be diagnoses, but would definitely fall into BAP. Since i've been diagnosed I see autism everywhere, former colleagues, people who's work I admire, old friends, and I know i'm just projecting and am probably wrong to think all these people have aspergers, but think BAP could account for many of these people. I really think almost every friend i've had would be described well by BAP, the majority of people I can't relate to but the small minority I click with as they're on the same wavelength.

There are some stats around the AQ scores in the book, the 'average' person score is 16, an average person with aspergers in the 30's (can't remember exactly), but the average first degree relative of someone with aspergers is around 26 (I think), which suggests there is a milder form that might fall short of diagnosis but still has the same underlying cause.

It made me think of this forum, and how sometimes people complain about over diagnosis, or people who are just 'quirky' and not having aspergers, it always bugged me because it has always seemed obvious to me that just because someone doesn't pass whatever the current consensus of the diagnosis threshold doesn't mean they don't have the underlying pathology (and as the Tony Atwood book points out severity of symptoms does not necessarily equate to level of suffering).

Well, I'm pretty sure my dad has full-blown Asperger's. He was an only child and both his parents died long before I was born, so basically I have never met anyone from his side of the family.

My mum's family is all NT. Screwed-up but NT.

Out of my three older brothers, I think one could have BAP. The other two definitely not.

Hm. So, would it be correct to change my opinion about my grandnephew's HFA having no influence with my possible AS? His relationship to me (and vice versa) would be a 4th degree relationship.

By the way, I never thought I would be discussing two of my favorite special interests, autism and genealogy, in the same sentence!

The plot thickens!

Maybe Alex should include "BAP" or "autism phenotype" in the "About" section of the Wrong Planet main page. Or, maybe your friends have other doubts about joining any BAP groups?

I wish I had such progeny!

Paternal Grandfather: Worked for his brother, a jazz/ragtime composer and businessman. Passed away 1987
Maternal Grandfather: Absolutely no idea; he had a farm. Passed away in 1946 from cirrhosis of the liver

Paternal Grandmother: Housewife, occasionally worked for his brother-in-law in a secretarial capacity. d. 1971
Maternal Grandmother: Housewife, then clerical worker. Passed away in 1993

Mother: housewife, then psychoanalyst. First member of her side of the family to graduate college/university. Took her 15 years to get her Bachelors, then 5 years to get he Master's in social work (MSW)

Father: Commodities trader, businessman. Later became a dispatcher at a hospital. Dropped out of college after three years to support us.

My mother is still working; my father is semi-retired.

Brother: Commodities trader. Became wealthy. Retired young. Very conservative politically.

My paternal grandfather's siblings: Sister: Piano teacher/tuner; Sister: Athlete (swam for miles), later got into the occult and spiritualism. Brother: ragtime/jazz composer (when young), then businessman. There were other brothers and sisters, though I don't know anything about them. One passed away quite young from diabetes around 1900.

I had a third cousin who was a semi-famous artist. He passed away last year.

ALL NT!! !! ! Not a trace of Autism, alas. Maybe a little eccentricity, especially in my grandfather's generation.

It would have been nice to have been able to relate to SOMEONE!

A lot of creativity there, in one way or another Kraftie..

My Great Uncle Max (the composer), whom I don't remember meeting since he passed away when I was 3 months old, reminded me of Stravinsky--somewhat of a maverick when he was young; conservative in many ways when he got older.

My father hardly mentioned Max for some reason; he admired his own father, who was a very humble man. Max was the kind of guy who would have drove a Stutz Bearcat in the 1920s, and would have worn raccoon coats.

My father adopted his father's humility; he is modest to a fault. I inherited his (my father's) love of facts; he believes I took it too far LOL....I have cherished memories of him teaching me the countries of the world on a globe when I was six-seven years of age.

I actually think there's much truth to the genetic aspects of autism--it was been proven pretty much beyond the shadow of a doubt through twin studies.

But, obviously, autism could come about "out of nowhere," like it did with me.