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Waterfalls
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23 Feb 2015, 1:52 pm

jk1 wrote:
Waterfalls wrote:
jk1 wrote:
I think crying when on one is around is fine.

I'm put off by someone crying in front of others. I keep away from such a person. Crying makes it impossible to talk and resolve whatever issue at hand. Sometimes crying causes unfair emotional bias in resolving problems. Some even know they can manipulate others by crying and try to use it. How I react to someone crying depends on the reason/situation, but in general I just keep away.

I don't usually notice people being manipulative unless it's extreme, are you saying you expect a high likelihood when someone cries that they are trying to manipulate? I think of crying as a nonviolent, controlled meltdown (if such a thing is possible).

I don't know the likelihood of someone consciously trying to manipulate when crying. I've just seen several people who seem to have got into the habit of very readily crying. Quite often the consequences are unfairly in favor of the crier, which probably encourages the crier to cry even more.

That's interesting though I don't know what to do with it as the people most bothered when I cry seem to generally be thought of as extremely manipulative. Not meaning you, just an added layer of confusion.....I guess it's fair to say I get confused when people manipulate me and others....that's probably the most likely time I cry.



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23 Feb 2015, 2:02 pm

Joe90 wrote:
I know a lot of Aspies seem to think that an NT will start crying if he/she sees somebody else crying, but it's a tad more subtle than that. I remember last year I was crying on the phone in the middle of a busy street because it was dark and the bus was really late, and I kept on thinking I was going to get murdered or something. And I saw other people giving me that critical look, as if I was stupid or mad. They looked like they were about to laugh.

It seems to be very against the social standards to cry in public if you are over 5. Yes, I remember a few years ago when my little cousin was 8, and he was having a crying fit in the street because his mum wanted him to come indoors and get into his pajamas, and he wanted to stay outside with me and his older brothers. And everybody who was walking by was giving him funny looks, but when I see toddlers crying nobody bats and eyelid. But because this kid was 8, he was getting all negative attention from people.

Where I live, people get funny about babies and toddlers crying, like they, and their parents, are doing something wrong! Maybe I'm taking the whole meeting people's expectations thing too literally and seriously.

People sometimes have done something rotten to me and I cried and they got mad and said I shouldn't.....I suppose someone saying I shouldn't could be valid, or it could mean they think I'm an easy victim and not acting strong maybe interferes with their enjoying tormenting me. Maybe if I were better at identifying who to believe....maybe that would help.



B19
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23 Feb 2015, 2:08 pm

It interests me that tears of emotion are biochemically different, as this excerpt from Wikipedia on "Tears" explains:


"Tear composition varies from tear types. Mainly, tears are composed of water, salts, antibodies and lysozymes (antibacterial enzymes). According to a discovery by Dr. William H. Frey II, a bio-chemist from St. Paul Ramsey medical center in Minnesota, the composition of tears caused by emotion differs from that of tears as a reaction to irritations, such as onion fumes, dust or allergy. Emotional tears are composed of more protein-based hormones, such as prolactin, adrenocorticotropic, and leucine enkephalin (a natural pain killer), which is suggested to be the mechanism behind the experience of crying from emotion making an individual feel better."

People who have somehow learned to savagely repress their feelings rarely cry, some never, and may have little conscious memory of the events associated with the repressed feelings. It's interesting to me to wonder if the learned inability to cry has some kind of biochemical flow-on effect on mood, health and behaviour.



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23 Feb 2015, 2:35 pm

Crying is not wrong. Crying is a normal human response to intense emotion.

Ignore people who tell you crying is wrong/bad or who shame you for it -- they are wrong.


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B19
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23 Feb 2015, 2:45 pm

It is often the case that the shamers are frightened of their own feelings, their own loss of control, and are engaging in a form of a defense mechanism called "reaction formation" - ie despising in others what they secretly despise in themselves. They deny it by projecting it onto others instead.



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23 Feb 2015, 2:48 pm

I never cry. Never knew how. One of my fears is crying in front of people. I would never do that.



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23 Feb 2015, 3:27 pm

Crying is a natural response, a safety valve - but our culture has made it into something it isn´t.


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23 Feb 2015, 4:58 pm

I am suspicious of the many male politicians crying in the last few years.


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B19
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23 Feb 2015, 5:50 pm

The other day I was (still) thinking about my deceased and beloved feline friend who died last year, and really missing him, and began to cry. I noticed that my left eye began crying, and then when both eyes were involved the left eye was far more active.

Being interested in human behaviour generally, (one of my special interests), I was curious as to whether this was just a personal thing or whether there is any significance in "left eye dominant crying" - knowing that the left eye is controlled by the right brain which is the centre (in most people) for emotion.

Lots of hits when I googled this, most to the effect that left-eye crying phenomenon is related to the "real emotional tears and feelings". Crying without the more prominent left eye crying is said likely to be feigned or insincere! So when you next see a politician cry, see which eye is involved first, it may be very interesting!



Waterfalls
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23 Feb 2015, 6:25 pm

No one's outright suggested I'm pretending when they're mad I cry, except I remember sobbing at a CSE meeting when they wanted to take stuff away from my child and afterwards staff saying they were surprised to get a call from the state, they thought I was happy, whyever did I do that etc. I thought that was a lie, saying they thought I was happy, but is it possible they really thought I was pretend crying to manipulate? Could they have really believed I was fishing for more and not actually dissatisfied and not thinking they ought to actually do something for my child?

Usually I've gotten the impression people didn't like me crying more because of unspoken social rules I wasn't following rather than thinking me crying to be manipulative, I'm certainly good at missing the unspoken rules. Having trouble with "no crying" as a rule, and to the extent I can't understand and follow this, thank you to those understanding, and encouraging. Thank you too to those trying to explain the other side, what the perspective of those who don't like to be around someone crying might be.

I am glad and think it for the best that rather than having violent meltdowns as a child when I was overwhelmed I was able to quietly cry. It may seem like manipulation to get my way, but I've never been someone who wanted to reach out and hurt others even when they hurt me, I just want the pain to stop! When I read what some here go through and have gone through, I'm grateful to have avoided that. But I get that even though I don't understand it there are some for various reasons who don't want anything to do with someone who cries. I don't know how I'd react as I've not encountered many others who cry as I have. Does anyone else cry much?



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23 Feb 2015, 6:47 pm

I find I cry more easily now, in my advanced stage of life. Often it is over abuse cases, animals or children.



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23 Feb 2015, 8:30 pm

B19 wrote:
I find I cry more easily now, in my advanced stage of life. Often it is over abuse cases, animals or children.

When I was young I felt it personally if I saw someone hurt, or not at all. Now I cry more easily for others but it's for them, not as if it were happening to me the same way. Can't watch sad movies or read sad books anymore or I cry.



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23 Feb 2015, 8:58 pm

Crying is not wrong, but I don't understand crying a lot over relatively minor, non-grief situations like someone being mean to self or not getting one's way. I guess some people feel an urge to cry, and the crying is hard to control, just like some other people might feel angry in the same situations, and the anger is also hard to control. The difference is that angry outbursts are more likely to result in harm to oneself or others than crying. But if the response were angry outbursts, I think that most people would consider it a problem.


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Waterfalls
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23 Feb 2015, 9:34 pm

btbnnyr wrote:
Crying is not wrong, but I don't understand crying a lot over relatively minor, non-grief situations like someone being mean to self or not getting one's way.

I suppose you're right, someone being mean can be minor. It's hard though to forget all the times someone being just a bit unkind was the only warning I could see before something bad happened. If it were clearer what the warning signs were something serious might occur from someone being a bit annoyed I'd likely not be so bothered by the truly minor stuff. As it is, though, nothing seems minor because I can't predict when someone might hurt me.



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24 Feb 2015, 9:24 am

I think, that biology is involved to a certain point. The rest is about personality and culture. Women cry more easily than men - partly for biological reasons, but also because of personal structure and a culture, that allows for it, - even regards it as part of feminine behavior.
I´m from ´53 and I was about 18 the first time, I saw my father cry. He´d gone down with stress. I thought, the world was about to collapse, but it suddenly struck me how limiting rules, we set up for mens behavior!
(I myself refused to cry for many years, because I didn´t want to be like my mom, who was a big time cryer and
it took me 4 Body-Mind courses to finally give in).

Culture: Our crown prince, Frederik, shed a happy tear at his own wedding. The next 6 months he was named: " The Cry-baby Prince" in the medias!
Guess what! He didn´t give a hoot, but carried on being natural :D 10-0 to him!


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24 Feb 2015, 9:47 am

Waterfalls wrote:
I've been told I'm not supposed to cry, And don't understand why this is a big deal.

Is it your therapist who told you not to cry? If so, this makes me very angry. Crying is a natural response to unhappiness. For myself, I can't stop myself from crying if I'm in that state. Trying to do so is unhealthy.

This is the ultimate in patient blaming. Your therapist is telling you to suppress your natural expression. S/he should help you to deal with your sadness, not tell you to hide it.