What is eye contact like for an NT with social anxiety?

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The tried and true way, observation, hence the reading suggestion. You can easily read responses looking for patterns in thought without subjecting someone to intrusive questioning. Finding a pattern in similar expression is extremely easy. People tend use the same words to describe the same experiences. You can do this without singling anyone out by 'reposting' their responses or invalidating their right to privacy. If you can't figure out how to do this then you shouldn't be doing it at all.

Well, that certainly wasn't my intention. And, I apologize if I offended anyone.

Why did I ask this question? Well, I was interacting with someone the other day (and, as typical, not making eye contact). This particular individual was a salesman. It was a really odd interaction. While we were talking (mostly me asking questions and him providing answers), I was either looking out (where I don't remember) or I was looking at his mouth. When I wasn't looking at his mouth, he began to re-position either his head or his body to help establish face-to-face communication. When I was looking to my left, he would move to the right. When I was looking to my right and down, he would move to the left and down.

To be honest, the interaction felt a little bit “creepy”. As if the salesman was trying to use some sort of super-magnet to suck my gaze in. At the same time, I realized that he was a salesman and this was what he was supposed to do. As I guess, this is supposedly how you establish a connection and gain trust. So, I just started to ignore his movements.

As a note, this is not the first time I noticed someone who I was talking to re-positioning his/her head and/or body in a similar fashion.

After this happened, I started to wonder, what goes through the mind of someone with social anxiety when they are interacting with others – both those they are comfortable with (e.g. close friends, family, etc.) and those who they are less comfortable with. Why? I have no idea. I had the thought and curiosity took over.

Then, as I reflected, I started to think of other things. As an example, when I watch movies or TV, just like when I am interacting with people, my eyes dart straight to the mouth. Does the same happen for people with social anxiety?

In any event, trust me, my motivations were not sinister.

Its not wrong to be curious, and I can understand the train of thought with it. I was taught that you don't experiment on people like that. Believe me it was 'pounded' into my head from a very early age. I was constantly in trouble for manipulating people to see what they would do. I would use the excuse that it's not my fault if they aren't smart enough to know better. I was curious as to why people reacted the way they did. Still am.

I did give you very accurate overview of social anxiety regarding eye contact. They all express the same type of things about eye contact and how people are judging them even in situations where most people wouldn't even know they are there, like a concert. It's actually a very debilitating condition.

What the sales person did was show you his insecurity in the lack of eye contact. People get roughly 80% of their social cues from the area around the eyes. People tend to feel uncomfortable when they can't evaluate the state of another. In your example he didn't know if the information he was conveying was convincing you to buy the item. He was being rude by trying to force you to look at him.

I have had similar situations happen to me. It always makes me question whether or not I was in the wrong and sends me down some tangent about behavior. I've learned though that ethics is an important part of curiosity.

Sorry missed a question. You asked where they look. Depends on the severity and how they have adapted to it. Some will look at the mouth only, others will look behind the person, others still won't look at all in the direction of the person usually fixating on a single object such as their feet.

Where they look isn't as important as why. As the why differentiates the difference between it being poor social skills or social anxiety.

If you feel like you were being judged and always are if you look at someone as if they can somehow 'see the real you' then chances are it's a social anxiety issue.

Sorry on my phone and it won't allow me to edit.

You're experience doesn't sound like social anxiety.

I frequently am told I have poor eye contact even though I always look at people when they are speaking. I am told when I talk I look 'all over the place'. The funny thing is I'm usually looking at either the image in my head and trying to describe it so they can understand because I have been taught I have to keep it simple for others or I'm observing every detail about the situation I'm in.

I don't know how others can talk while looking at someone and still be able to focus on their thought to convey. I can't do it. I have to focus on the thought otherwise I completely lose it.

It is normal and common to look all over the place while talking, and the pattern is usually other places to face, face to other, other to face, switching often back and forth.
The eyes make big movements from somewhere in the background or foreground to the face while a person is talking, without the person being aware of what they are looking at, since they are focused on what they are saying.
For NTs, their gaze often lands on one of the eyes or between the eyes when they swoop in from off the face, and this may be NT signature, regardless of whether they have social anxiety or not.
If they have social anxiety, they probably focus for much shorter duration on the eyes to reduce mutual eye contact, but it would be hard to control where their eyes land while going from background to face in big moves.

Kicker – Thanks for all your responses. As you probably can tell, I really don’t understand social anxiety. Because my therapist suggested that I have it, I am interested in understanding it more (I honestly have no idea if I do or don’t).

Some questions:
- Does someone with social anxiety have the feelings you described above consistently with everyone (close friends, close family, distant family, acquaintances, strangers, etc.)? Or, is it more case by case?
- Does someone with social anxiety have this feeling in all situations? I tend to distinguish between those situations where I am exchanging information with someone (say, at work, or in my example exchange with a salesperson) versus a social exchange at a party or work get-together. For me, the first is easy and effortless (as I know exactly what information I need, which information to convey and which questions to ask), while the second is difficult and uncomfortable. I have no issues talking to my co-workers about work projects. But, put me in a non-work situation (say, a company party) and the only thing I would be interested in talking with my co-workers about is a work project.


Another question:
- Can you have social anxiety if you don’t feel others are judging you?

It’s interesting you mention the concert thing example. When I was younger, I did avoid going places because I was a bit embarrassed (for lack of a better word) that I was a loner and didn’t have many friends. Does that qualify?


I just figured that the sales person was wondering if I was paying attention to him. He may have been insecure. I have no idea. The thought never crossed my mind.


I 100% agree (for that particular experience). As I mentioned, I am quite comfortable in situations where I am exchanging information. As, the interaction (at least for me) is 100% logical. It’s the ad hoc, unstructured exchanges (say, at a party), which I find challenging. So much so, that I seem to be avoiding them more and more. Which probably is another problem.

Thank you. That is quite interesting. I still am curious whether "they probably focus for much shorter duration on the eyes to reduce mutual eye contact" with all people (including close family and friends) or whether it is selective, based upon comfort level. I am not certain why I am curious about this. I just am.

It occurs to me that having ASD doesn't protect against social anxiety, and since it can be anxiety provoking to feel confused in a social situation and to be treated poorly, there might be a higher rate of social anxiety in people with ASD, diagnosed or not.

I remember reading that people with ASD spend more time looking at the mouth on videos than neuroypical people do. But it might be hard to find a way to absolutely distinguish that you do or don't have a social anxiety disorder.

The classic stereotype of a person with aspergers is a person who is oblivious to and unworried about others' reactions, but I have often felt very socially anxious (sometimes still get upset) over how confusing group social situations, even here, are.

Some questions:
- Does someone with social anxiety have the feelings you described above consistently with everyone (close friends, close family, distant family, acquaintances, strangers, etc.)? Or, is it more case by case?

It depends on the severity of the condition. So it's case by case.

- Does someone with social anxiety have this feeling in all situations? I tend to distinguish between those situations where I am exchanging information with someone (say, at work, or in my example exchange with a salesperson) versus a social exchange at a party or work get-together. For me, the first is easy and effortless (as I know exactly what information I need, which information to convey and which questions to ask), while the second is difficult and uncomfortable. I have no issues talking to my co-workers about work projects. But, put me in a non-work situation (say, a company party) and the only thing I would be interested in talking with my co-workers about is a work project.

You can have social anxiety around specific events without having a disorder. Everyone has some anxiety around social events. A good example would be giving a speech causing butterflies in the stomach, going on a first date, etc. These are considered normal responses to the unknown. It's how you react to these events that determine whether it's just normal jitters or if it's something more severe. You can have social anxiety without it being a disorder.


- Can you have social anxiety if you don’t feel others are judging you?

Yes, like the first date example. You can be worried about making a good first impression etc. Again there are varying degrees of severity. It only becomes a disorder/problem if it prevents you from engaging with others.

-It’s interesting you mention the concert thing example. When I was younger, I did avoid going places because I was a bit embarrassed (for lack of a better word) that I was a loner and didn’t have many friends. Does that qualify?

I wouldn't know, what were your thoughts around it? What did you think would happen to you? What did you do exactly? It could be a normal teenage/kid response to being socially isolated.



I 100% agree (for that particular experience). As I mentioned, I am quite comfortable in situations where I am exchanging information. As, the interaction (at least for me) is 100% logical. It’s the ad hoc, unstructured exchanges (say, at a party), which I find challenging. So much so, that I seem to be avoiding them more and more. Which probably is another problem.

The avoidance of social interaction can be caused by a great number of things. I know that you have a drive to be 'better' I have the same drive, though I am learning that I can be myself without it being a 'problem' to fix.

My prediction is that there is a significant gap between how long they focus on eyes with close people who they are comfortable with vs. others. If they are comfortable with someone, gaze may be typical. For autistic people, I predict atypical gaze with all people.

but this, here's a trained (or naturally gifted) person who wants to sell and not want you to drift into thinking

it's not all what is said out there about eye-contact, that makes it such a good thing
guru's and sellers (and liars) use words and eye-contact to influence you


(if everybody agrees, apparently, on a thing then think again)

I suppose, ultimately, this is what I was wondering. And your prediction makes sense. Thanks.

Kicker – Thanks for your replies. They are quite helpful.

Regarding your questions, I can provide a better example. So, I used to walk through school, by myself, all the time. I would marvel at the other kids who walked together in groups and chatted. I wanted to be like them. I didn’t want to be perceived as being different. I didn’t want the fact that I was always by myself to influence how others treated me. During recess and lunch breaks, I would walk by the kids who were sitting outside, eating and talking. I would walk straight to the library (which was my safe haven). I didn’t want kids to notice I was always “hiding away” in the library. I didn’t want to be associated with those other library kids (who were considered odd or social outcasts).

I am not certain if this answers your question.