When will neurodiversity finally be accepted?
I think it will take time. In the 90's it seemed like everyone was "coming out". Nowadays hardly nobody even bats an eye when someone does it.
Autism hasn't been in the public eye so much as it has been in the last decade or so(?). Everywhere you look on tv/movies there seems to be a new Autistic character. Sure they may be a lot of stereo typical auts but the more people are exposed to them the more society will get used to us, and hopefully become more understanding of us as well.
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HighLlama wrote:
Krafty is right about more information being out there being a key. That is true of anything unknown or misunderstood. I think, unfortunately, the fact that NTs look for and need an emotional reciprocation and style of communication which isn't very natural to Autism/Asperger's folks is what the main difficulty might be. The question is how to make something very alien to an NT seem normal and equal in its own right. Particularly when it's not something they feel. You can explain the pain you feel at loud noises or eye contact, but most will not be able to relate to this directly, even if they want to understand.
Arguably, human philosophy, religion, politics, and thought are shaped very much by the fact that there is no species or being with more power pushing us around. This can give us delusions about what we are and our importance in reality. Within humanity, you have this neurodiverse subset, and many NTs may understandably find this whole different perspective difficult to deal with because they don't understand it and it implies that they should change their view of themselves and what they know to be human. Think of the Wrong Planet phrase--imagine of aliens came here which had very different abilities and a wholly different way of communicating. That could scare any of us. So the more accurate information out there, the better. And, as Krafty said, educating what friends you can is probably the best thing, too. The more people that see you as a person, the better. That's all it's really about. Especially since NTs enjoy emotional bonding. I've often felt that some of the resistance to homosexuality is some fear on the homophobe's part that they will have to conform to that preference, when in fact homosexuals are not asking that. Likewise, many NTs may irrationally fear that a society that seems to be filling up with neurodiverse will expect those NTs to change, when the truth is neurodiverse people are probably just looking for understanding and acceptance.
Arguably, human philosophy, religion, politics, and thought are shaped very much by the fact that there is no species or being with more power pushing us around. This can give us delusions about what we are and our importance in reality. Within humanity, you have this neurodiverse subset, and many NTs may understandably find this whole different perspective difficult to deal with because they don't understand it and it implies that they should change their view of themselves and what they know to be human. Think of the Wrong Planet phrase--imagine of aliens came here which had very different abilities and a wholly different way of communicating. That could scare any of us. So the more accurate information out there, the better. And, as Krafty said, educating what friends you can is probably the best thing, too. The more people that see you as a person, the better. That's all it's really about. Especially since NTs enjoy emotional bonding. I've often felt that some of the resistance to homosexuality is some fear on the homophobe's part that they will have to conform to that preference, when in fact homosexuals are not asking that. Likewise, many NTs may irrationally fear that a society that seems to be filling up with neurodiverse will expect those NTs to change, when the truth is neurodiverse people are probably just looking for understanding and acceptance.
I don't expect NTs to change, I just expect them to be more forgiving and understanding of my quirks. Just because someone is autistic doesn't mean they're bad and deserve to be abused. They deserve love too.
goofygoobers wrote:
I'm tired of being treated differently for something I can't help, especially if I don't even know what I'm doing wrong.
When do you think people will finally accept and understand what it really means to be autistic?
When do you think people will finally accept and understand what it really means to be autistic?
There will never be a time where every accepts and understands what they ought to. In the meantime we need to learn how to get along in this flawed world of our own making, accept that we also are responsible for being insensitive and so on, and deal with it pragmatically. Bellyaching about it is counterproductive and unhealthy.
Can the situation improve? Of course it can. But clearly the neurological differences involved here make it so that neither party can truly be sensitive to the other. They will never relate to you in the same way, be able to tell as well as you might whether or not someone on the spectrum is displaying their symptoms, and so on. No amount of education can truly bridge this gap. And the truth is that we as a group can be pretty callous and off base towards them as well. It is imperative that we try to be self aware and accept our own portion of blame before we become caustic, conspiratorial, bitter, and misanthropic like a number of folks here.
How many threads do we see that are about what NT's offer the world, the things that they can do and we can't, the unfair assumptions we have about them? I'd like to see discussions of that nature too.
Getting worked up and having a victim complex reminds me of a quote from Nelson Mandela's description of vengeance and forgiveness: "Holding a grudge is like taking poison and expecting someone else to die."
So, to all of the folks at WP: Quit taking poison!
_________________
There is no wealth like knowledge, no poverty like ignorance.
Nahj ul-Balāgha by Ali bin Abu-Talib
Last edited by Lukecash12 on 01 Jul 2015, 5:38 pm, edited 1 time in total.
kraftiekortie wrote:
I don't sense that Goofy has a "victim complex."
I sense that she's tired of being treated like a freak--because she really isn't a freak. She's just like everybody else. She needs love and kindness--because she gives out love and kindness.
I sense that she's tired of being treated like a freak--because she really isn't a freak. She's just like everybody else. She needs love and kindness--because she gives out love and kindness.
I'm very sorry if I gave the impression that Goofy herself had a victim complex. What I mean to do was warn against a victim complex, and explain that there is only a certain amount of progress we can expect because of neurological gap.
She's growing up in a world where many groups of people single others out and senselessly tear them down. It is a torrent that assaults basically everyone and all of us, "NT" or not, need to develop a positive self definition as the basis for our self esteem and satisfaction.
Also, Goofy, if you want to do better with people you are going to need to learn, learn, and learn some more about social interactions. The more you learn, the better you will do. You're faced with a choice: do you want to fight down bitterness for the rest of your life or continually fight to be more functional for the rest of your life? Neither is easy, and neither is very fair. I understand why many people on the spectrum hate this idea and feel like they have change themselves. So much of it comes down to how well you can cope and the question of whether you feel changing this or that is really a change of your inner self.
Are you your autism? Does it feel like a violation to change this or that? No one can decide this for you and it will have a direct effect on your success and happiness in life, success and happiness being things you have to define for yourself along with a healthy understanding of responsibility. It's a hard world that you're growing up in, and I can say from personal experience that I am okay with all of the changes I've made in the five decades I've had.
But most of all, let me say that I feel for you Goofy, and yes you do deserve to be loved. You can supply that love yourself, but you ought to be loved by other people too. There are people out there that can and will accept you, and we at WP aren't going anywhere in the foreseeable future either.
_________________
There is no wealth like knowledge, no poverty like ignorance.
Nahj ul-Balāgha by Ali bin Abu-Talib
Last edited by Lukecash12 on 01 Jul 2015, 6:04 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Cockroach96 wrote:
Quote:
After growing up in an era where not only the idea of gay marriage but the idea of a Transgender celebrities was not only inconceivable, but people who were not heterosexuals got thrown in jail for doing what comes naturally I can't say neurodiversity acceptance will never happen.
It's not that simple. Most normal people think that autistics are literally lunatics. Few NTs are aware of the existence of mild ASDs(Asperger's, HFA). Aspies are probably the most obscure minority that has ever existed.
Sexual diversity is becoming more and more acceptable, but neurodiversity will never be recognized or accepted.
Unlike LGBT, autism is a complex difference that normal people can't understand. But most importantly, being an Aspie causes you to be in conflict with society all the time. A gay man can be socially accepted, but an Aspie man can't.
Hahahaha, I think the Zoroastrians, Ashkenazi Jews, or pockets of tribal communities in China that aren't even aware what "China" is (practicing religions that have as little as 200 adherents), count as minorities that have us pretty well beat at being obscure. There will always be sharp limits to the relationship between what we know and accept, and what is really out there.
_________________
There is no wealth like knowledge, no poverty like ignorance.
Nahj ul-Balāgha by Ali bin Abu-Talib
goofygoobers wrote:
HighLlama wrote:
Krafty is right about more information being out there being a key. That is true of anything unknown or misunderstood. I think, unfortunately, the fact that NTs look for and need an emotional reciprocation and style of communication which isn't very natural to Autism/Asperger's folks is what the main difficulty might be. The question is how to make something very alien to an NT seem normal and equal in its own right. Particularly when it's not something they feel. You can explain the pain you feel at loud noises or eye contact, but most will not be able to relate to this directly, even if they want to understand.
Arguably, human philosophy, religion, politics, and thought are shaped very much by the fact that there is no species or being with more power pushing us around. This can give us delusions about what we are and our importance in reality. Within humanity, you have this neurodiverse subset, and many NTs may understandably find this whole different perspective difficult to deal with because they don't understand it and it implies that they should change their view of themselves and what they know to be human. Think of the Wrong Planet phrase--imagine of aliens came here which had very different abilities and a wholly different way of communicating. That could scare any of us. So the more accurate information out there, the better. And, as Krafty said, educating what friends you can is probably the best thing, too. The more people that see you as a person, the better. That's all it's really about. Especially since NTs enjoy emotional bonding. I've often felt that some of the resistance to homosexuality is some fear on the homophobe's part that they will have to conform to that preference, when in fact homosexuals are not asking that. Likewise, many NTs may irrationally fear that a society that seems to be filling up with neurodiverse will expect those NTs to change, when the truth is neurodiverse people are probably just looking for understanding and acceptance.
Arguably, human philosophy, religion, politics, and thought are shaped very much by the fact that there is no species or being with more power pushing us around. This can give us delusions about what we are and our importance in reality. Within humanity, you have this neurodiverse subset, and many NTs may understandably find this whole different perspective difficult to deal with because they don't understand it and it implies that they should change their view of themselves and what they know to be human. Think of the Wrong Planet phrase--imagine of aliens came here which had very different abilities and a wholly different way of communicating. That could scare any of us. So the more accurate information out there, the better. And, as Krafty said, educating what friends you can is probably the best thing, too. The more people that see you as a person, the better. That's all it's really about. Especially since NTs enjoy emotional bonding. I've often felt that some of the resistance to homosexuality is some fear on the homophobe's part that they will have to conform to that preference, when in fact homosexuals are not asking that. Likewise, many NTs may irrationally fear that a society that seems to be filling up with neurodiverse will expect those NTs to change, when the truth is neurodiverse people are probably just looking for understanding and acceptance.
I don't expect NTs to change, I just expect them to be more forgiving and understanding of my quirks. Just because someone is autistic doesn't mean they're bad and deserve to be abused. They deserve love too.
Sorry, if I was being unclear. I agree with you. What I was trying to say was that most people with autism or Asperger's probably don't expect NTs to change, but instead just want to be accepted and understood. I think NTs probably fear, irrationally, that they will be expected to change. That's just a guess.
Lukecash12 wrote:
kraftiekortie wrote:
I don't sense that Goofy has a "victim complex."
I sense that she's tired of being treated like a freak--because she really isn't a freak. She's just like everybody else. She needs love and kindness--because she gives out love and kindness.
I sense that she's tired of being treated like a freak--because she really isn't a freak. She's just like everybody else. She needs love and kindness--because she gives out love and kindness.
I'm very sorry if I gave the impression that Goofy herself had a victim complex. What I mean to do was warn against a victim complex, and explain that there is only a certain amount of progress we can expect because of neurological gap.
She's growing up in a world where many groups of people single others out and senselessly tear them down. It is a torrent that assaults basically everyone and all of us, "NT" or not, need to develop a positive self definition as the basis for our self esteem and satisfaction.
Also, Goofy, if you want to do better with people you are going to need to learn, learn, and learn some more about social interactions. The more you learn, the better you will do. You're faced with a choice: do you want to fight down bitterness for the rest of your life or continually fight to be more functional for the rest of your life? Neither is easy, and neither is very fair. I understand why many people on the spectrum hate this idea and feel like they have change themselves. So much of it comes down to how well you can cope and the question of whether you feel changing this or that is really a change of your inner self.
Are you your autism? Does it feel like a violation to change this or that? No one can decide this for you and it will have a direct effect on your success and happiness in life, success and happiness being things you have to define for yourself along with a healthy understanding of responsibility. It's a hard world that you're growing up in, and I can say from personal experience that I am okay with all of the changes I've made in the five decades I've had.
But most of all, let me say that I feel for you Goofy, and yes you do deserve to be loved. You can supply that love yourself, but you ought to be loved by other people too. There are people out there that can and will accept you, and we at WP aren't going anywhere in the foreseeable future either.
I don't know where or how I can learn more social skills than I already know. Can any of you help me somehow?
Lukecash12 wrote:
Does it feel like a violation to change this or that? No one can decide this for you and it will have a direct effect on your success and happiness in life, success and happiness being things you have to define for yourself along with a healthy understanding of responsibility. It's a hard world that you're growing up in, and I can say from personal experience that I am okay with all of the changes I've made in the five decades I've had.
It sounds to me as though you would have us all learn to wear masks when around NTs. That is not acceptance. That's assimilation.
Yes it feels like a violation, and sometimes even worse than that.
That's great that you are okay with all of the changes you've made in five decades. How about you stop assuming or expecting other people to be just like you and okay with the same changes you're okay with?
Your success at conformity or assimilation into social structures does not make you better than the rest of us.
I think many here have already tried their best to do what they can to cope; some to the point of destroying themselves, and some are just tired and at the end of their ropes.
Instead of hoping for the ability to compromise oneself to an even greater level, many are just hoping for some more acceptance and understanding, and a little less socially driven abuse.
For myself, I honestly do not want the NTs to have to change themselves for me. I'd much rather see a separate space created for the NDs where there is much less built-in structural conflict. Then when NDs feel like compromising to interact with NTs, then it will be completely their choice to do so willingly, and not a forced situation like that of a prisoner interacting with a prison guard (keyholder).
Cockroach96 wrote:
The fact that we are Aspies is our problem, not society's problem. Nobody is obliged to tolerate our weirdness. Sad, but true.
How I feel about it for the most part, honestly. Except I also think it should be a 50/50 effort on both sides (from NTs and people on the spectrum). Nobody should expect to be accommodated to fully without giving a bit as well, which is what I seem to see a fair amount of people on here wanting in a way.
Personally, I'd rather people genuinely like me for who I am and not in some ways pity me and try to cater to me because of that. Which I've had plenty of my friends do throughout the years.
Last edited by Logston on 01 Jul 2015, 7:31 pm, edited 1 time in total.
olympiadis wrote:
Lukecash12 wrote:
Does it feel like a violation to change this or that? No one can decide this for you and it will have a direct effect on your success and happiness in life, success and happiness being things you have to define for yourself along with a healthy understanding of responsibility. It's a hard world that you're growing up in, and I can say from personal experience that I am okay with all of the changes I've made in the five decades I've had.
It sounds to me as though you would have us all learn to wear masks when around NTs. That is not acceptance. That's assimilation.
Yes it feels like a violation, and sometimes even worse than that.
That's great that you are okay with all of the changes you've made in five decades. How about you stop assuming or expecting other people to be just like you and okay with the same changes you're okay with?
Your success at conformity or assimilation into social structures does not make you better than the rest of us.
I think many here have already tried their best to do what they can to cope; some to the point of destroying themselves, and some are just tired and at the end of their ropes.
Instead of hoping for the ability to compromise oneself to an even greater level, many are just hoping for some more acceptance and understanding, and a little less socially driven abuse.
For myself, I honestly do not want the NTs to have to change themselves for me. I'd much rather see a separate space created for the NDs where there is much less built-in structural conflict. Then when NDs feel like compromising to interact with NTs, then it will be completely their choice to do so willingly, and not a forced situation like that of a prisoner interacting with a prison guard (keyholder).
Well what it sounds like to you is not what I literally said. What I was stressing was that we live in a real world and there are consequences to either decision which are naturally going to be unfair. Different people will have different feelings about what is and isn't a violation. One should notice from a more careful look at my last post that I don't expect or assume anyone is going to do what I did myself.
What I am trying to foster is self awareness and people being conscious of how the world really is, instead of coming up with fantasies like a place cordoned off purely for the use of neurologically atypical people. What happens then? Do they just provide for us all in our little isolated environment? How does such a thing happen? And what is or isn't violating about us changing ourselves? Other people of many different neurological makeups learn to cope and change in order to get what they want out of life, that is just called succeeding in the real world.
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Lukecash12 wrote:
What I mean to do was warn against a victim complex, and explain that there is only a certain amount of progress we can expect because of neurological gap.
She's growing up in a world where many groups of people single others out and senselessly tear them down. It is a torrent that assaults basically everyone and all of us, "NT" or not, need to develop a positive self definition as the basis for our self esteem and satisfaction.
She's growing up in a world where many groups of people single others out and senselessly tear them down. It is a torrent that assaults basically everyone and all of us, "NT" or not, need to develop a positive self definition as the basis for our self esteem and satisfaction.
Call it victim complex, call it a natural reaction to being told at every stage of ones life you are lesser and wrong, call it internalized ableism this is a major reason if not the most important reason Autistic Rights movement is stalled out ATM. The road to acceptance by society and difficult and there are particular complications involved with Autism but if we do not accept ourselves as human beings with every right to be ourselves and not aliens hopelessly stuck on the wrong planet it will not matter how many nice Autistic articles are written or good portrayals on TV there are. While the world is racing to accept all sorts of diversity if we decide that while that is nice it is happening for everybody else, it will never happen for us it won't and the 40 years behind we are now will become 50 years behind etc.
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“Self Acceptance is a process not a performance”
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Professionally Identified and joined WP August 26, 2013
DSM 5: Autism Spectrum Disorder, DSM IV: Aspergers Moderate Severity.


