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League_Girl
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07 Aug 2015, 10:53 am

Joe90 wrote:
A bossy person does not mean my boss. I was giving an example, including a forceful, impatient person.




I thought bossy was someone who is inflexible and wants everything to go their way and they are not open to anyone's ideas about how they want to do things or what they want to do. They always want to be in control.

Everyone is bossy to an extent but it's not real bossy like with parents for example or supervisors because it's their job, anyone who is in authority.


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07 Aug 2015, 1:37 pm

Joe90 wrote:
It seems a lot of Aspies say that they are blunt and tell the absolute truth, either morally (because you hate to tell a fib) or automatically (unaware that you are being blunt and not intending to be mean or anything).

For those who just prefer to be blunt, how do you do it without feeling awkward or guilty? I have always found being blunt the most hardest thing to do. I am hypersensitive to other people's thoughts and feelings, so I find myself sugarcoating a lot of things rather than just be blunt and say what I really think. Example:-

NT: Am I too bossy?
What I'm thinking: Yes you bloody well are!
What my instinct tells me: I think she knows that she's bossy to me, but will still be awkward to just say what I'm thinking.
What I actually say: No you're not that bossy. Don't be silly!
What my most honest answer would be: Well, not exactly, sometimes if you're perhaps in a bad mood, but we can all get like that sometimes.
What I just would find difficult to say: Yes you are bossy.

That last one is the blunt answer what a lot of Aspies would prefer to say. But if I was that blunt, I would feel embarrassed, guilty and awkward. It would play on my mind for days. I guess I am too lenient with people.

Is this unusual for an Aspie?


Yes, I think this is unusual.

Why do you have to lie? I think it's more socially acceptable (which I believe is what your going for) if you just tell them.

I am the type of person that will be honest if they ask but if they don't I won't just speak what's on my mind unless I really hate that person.


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chemystery00
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07 Aug 2015, 1:53 pm

In my personal experience as a blunt person I've only felt guilty if I insulted the person to a point to where they felt hurt or on the verge of tears.
Which can sometimes be a lot.
Being blunt is a mechanism I use so I won't feel bad when people leave me, which is a lot.
The ones who appreciate my candor and sharp witty tongue become my friends/therapists/doctors
Just remember to not be blunt around strangers or acquaintances esp. in major cities
Best,
Pen from USA
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tetris
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07 Aug 2015, 2:12 pm

Often it just happens and I usually don't realise I've been blunt. Occasionally I do the polite thing but often I've already said something before I figure out what I should have said.



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07 Aug 2015, 4:05 pm

Joe90 wrote:
NT: Am I too bossy?
What I'm thinking: Yes you bloody well are!
What my instinct tells me: I think she knows that she's bossy to me, but will still be awkward to just say what I'm thinking.
What I actually say: No you're not that bossy. Don't be silly!
What my most honest answer would be: Well, not exactly, sometimes if you're perhaps in a bad mood, but we can all get like that sometimes.
What I just would find difficult to say: Yes you are bossy.

I remember a rather brash but friendly co-worker asking me that about 25 years ago. I wanted to say "yes" but didn't want to hurt his feelings, and I think I just looked uncomfortable and then I kind of damned him with faint praise - "well......er....no......kind of.......er......" But I think he probably picked up the message from that. It's probably a mistake to think that the only options are to emphatically say "yes" or "no." Neither answer is all that good. Say yes and you risk offending them. Say no and you risk making them worse. I try hard never to lie like that. If somebody has a serious fault, I really don't want to assure them that they don't. There are many alternatives. Often silence speaks volumes - in this case, it might be taken as a tactful "yes." And NTs very often answer indirectly, rather than literally. The art is to say it without saying it, and I usually don't have enough time to do that very well. Possibly something like "oh no, I just think I'd be a better worker if I was given a little more freedom with how I do things, is all."

The confounding factor with bosses is that there's very often a pecking order that they don't want disturbing, but even so, a tactful criticism wouldn't usually do the worker any harm. It's useful to weigh up the boss' personality and how much clout they have. Some of them are confident enough to know that they don't have to mend their ways just because a subordinate asks them to. Others are so insecure and vindictive that they'll retaliate, sometimes effectively, sometimes not.



Joe90
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07 Aug 2015, 6:20 pm

League_Girl wrote:
Joe90 wrote:
A bossy person does not mean my boss. I was giving an example, including a forceful, impatient person.




Quote. I thought bossy was someone who is inflexible and wants everything to go their way and they are not open to anyone's ideas about how they want to do things or what they want to do. They always want to be in control. Quote

Yes that's what I meant by bossy, but everyone here thinks I'm talking about my boss at work. I'm not talking about my boss at work, I'm not talking about any person in particular, I was just giving an example, an analogy, a template of a thousand conversations I've had where I have been the complete opposite of blunt. I just cannot be too honest, it's so hard, and I feel like the only Aspie who lies like most NTs do.


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07 Aug 2015, 10:02 pm

Joe90 wrote:
everyone here thinks I'm talking about my boss at work. I'm not talking about my boss at work, I'm not talking about any person in particular


Sorry, I went and drifted back into thinking that. Possible reason:

League_Girl wrote:
I thought bossy was someone who is inflexible and wants everything to go their way and they are not open to anyone's ideas about how they want to do things or what they want to do. They always want to be in control.


Sounds like a perfect description of most of the bosses I've met. I suppose that's why it's called "bossy." Quite an indictment of the employment system really.



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07 Aug 2015, 11:21 pm

I don't manage to be blunt, I am in fact blunt. Some even say brutally honest. I am cutting ties with people who can't handle that and I don't care who they are. I am tired of being the one having to modify my behavior when no one else does. So, there.



Joe90
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08 Aug 2015, 3:20 am

Not being blunt is partially natural to me. It's called social instinct.

Am I the only Aspie who thinks like this?


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08 Aug 2015, 5:29 am

I used to be a lot more blunt than I am now. Saying the truth in a diplomatic manner is something I have learned to do (not always successful, but much better than when I was younger.)

My problem now is not so much that I am blunt, but I can say things the "wrong way" and have a different meaning than I intended. This usually happens in conversation that is just flowing or when I am expected to have a response to something that was just said. I don't have time for my thoughts and words to get connected right. It also has to do with the fact that my inner thoughts regarding the question I was asked are like a fire hydrant's amount of water, and I'm supposed to somehow get them condensed into a garden hose stream that's manageable for the amount of time given for talking or for the other person's understanding.

Again, I say that I dealt with most of my social problems by just keeping my mouth shut. That one strategy has helped me avoid many difficulties. I'm not saying it is the *best* strategy, because it definitely has a downside.



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08 Aug 2015, 6:25 am

Joe90 wrote:
It seems a lot of Aspies say that they are blunt and tell the absolute truth, either morally (because you hate to tell a fib) or automatically (unaware that you are being blunt and not intending to be mean or anything).

For those who just prefer to be blunt, how do you do it without feeling awkward or guilty? I have always found being blunt the most hardest thing to do. I am hypersensitive to other people's thoughts and feelings, so I find myself sugarcoating a lot of things rather than just be blunt and say what I really think. Example:-

NT: Am I too bossy?
What I'm thinking: Yes you bloody well are!
What my instinct tells me: I think she knows that she's bossy to me, but will still be awkward to just say what I'm thinking.
What I actually say: No you're not that bossy. Don't be silly!
What my most honest answer would be: Well, not exactly, sometimes if you're perhaps in a bad mood, but we can all get like that sometimes.
What I just would find difficult to say: Yes you are bossy.

That last one is the blunt answer what a lot of Aspies would prefer to say. But if I was that blunt, I would feel embarrassed, guilty and awkward. It would play on my mind for days. I guess I am too lenient with people.

Is this unusual for an Aspie?


It's not unusual.


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08 Aug 2015, 7:25 am

Hmmmmm... I often sugar coat things and try to make deliveries soft, unless I'm trying to make a point or help a more stubborn person see where they're wrong.

Even then I try to do it with a light hearted attitude.

Truth is, most people take bluntness as a personal attack intrinsically. If you want to ruffle everyone's feathers around you, then always be blunt.

If you want to live more at peace and stay in the background, try learning a little diplomacy and sugar coating... since truth, as good and right as it is, doesn't taste good to everyone, and sometimes a little sugar can help people process and accept that more easily.

I'm not saying to lie by any means. There is a way to deliver truth that is best suited for each person. Some people need bluntness, others are more fragile. You can drop a bag of ice on the ground to break up the ice and open the bag.

But to open and use a box of glass cups, you need to gently set the box on a counter and open it carefully.


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marcb0t
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08 Aug 2015, 8:16 am

I know I'm a rob0t, and all, but what I've learned is that people are not machines.

They are personable relational creatures by nature. So you can't always give such blunt answers without anticipating some kind of fallout.

What I want to add is that I do believe people these days in general have grown too soft, and expect to be coddled. Physical discipline for children like even spanking is looked down upon. And Fnord is right that most people would rather listen to lies than accept some hard truths about themselves.

I do think that there should be more bluntness and honesty, really.

I also think that bluntness does not equal truth. They are 2 separate things entirely.

A person can tell lie in a very blunt way. And a person can tell the truth without it being misinterpreted as a personal attack.

If you've heard the term constructive criticism, it's a way of conveying what you honestly think needs to change about a subject or a person without stomping out their flame.

I can tell a person that "I don't like your song, and here's why". And then the person will feel like dirt and go crying to their room.

Or, a better approach would be, "you know, I like certain parts of your song here, and if you make these changes here and there, your song will be good to go".

This delivery will be better received and from experience, accomplishes what I intended the person to change. And then they learn, and trust me, and feel like I'm genuinely trying to help them.

Of course there are people who will not even accept the most sugar coated form of truth.

Does that make sense?

Basically, truth is truth, but bluntness is only one way of delivering information on general.


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08 Aug 2015, 11:39 am

Being blunt has always been a "problem" with me, deemed by peers and family. Unless the bluntness is a "polite" statement, then you are revered for it for some reason. Sometimes blunt is just not always polite.. I'm not out there to try to insult people/make them feel bad, but I don't like lying and often my bluntness is just the truth to how I'm thinking..

So if I'm blunt, it's very likely I have no idea how else to deliver the statement and I have no time to think of how to do that and it's just 'automatic'. But I do keep most of my thoughts internalize anyway, not like I could verbally execute them on a moment's notice anyway especially if the thought is complex in my brain.

There are times that I do something similar to what Kiriae mentions in their post, convincing themselves that something is essentially fine and can give a less insulting, but true, statement and continue on. I tend to convince myself that everything is fine, probably a source of anxiety for me because everything is actually not fine.



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08 Aug 2015, 2:18 pm

I try not to be blunt, but just like about everyone else who responded to this thread, I am. As has been pointed out, some people actually find it refreshing that someone says what they think, while others are so anal retentive and full of themselves that seemingly anything you say offends them. Fortunately, a lot of people are understanding and the one's that aren't can be avoided.


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