NTs Keep Score

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it's all so confusing (the brain)... it's no wonder that there are so many people who are AS and don't even realize SPECIFICALLY what's up with them.... they go through life knowing SOMETHING"S different... it's just hard to say what... until you read about it and see how all these "irrelevent" things just suddenly add up... and that's only cause you know yourself! (i'm not dxed... but if it's not AS... it's something pretty darn close!)

Oh, not all AS people are unaware that other people matter, at least in a pragmatic sense.

Many are unaware, however.

Exactly. And it's the same on the side of the NT. It isn't intentional, it's just confusion and who can blame either side when we are so far from knowing why or how it happens? About all they know for sure is that things are not working right.

I should say that I'm the same. Not diagnosed at this point, never thought it was anything else until I saw this and went holy crap! I have all of these obscure things. I just thought I was extremely eccentric and my synapsis were always misfiring. Well, at least I knew something was up with my brain. LOL I'm not sure how much a diagnosis would do for me anyway at this point. I do know all of those relationship things are familiar.

I love the operating system analogy because my husband works in IT. Maybe that's how he figured it out. He's used to analyzing systems and debugging. I have to admit, when we hit something, he just stayed calm and analyzed it until he figured it out to his satisfaction. Maybe his career and personality made it easier for him to deal with all of these crazy effects. It sounds like that is how the couple in the book figured it out.

lol that's why i'm thinkin it's a good idea to cruise the strip for guys in my science lab... least they're already lit-savy about autism... if not ever faced with it in RL ^_^

NT's only think they have superior skills. It is just that they are the majority that makes it significant - otherwise when you really look at things they have alot of issues too. Why is it considered "better" or "right" to make assumptions about other people based on body language. If the other person is speaking the same language as them that is great - but if not then it seems like it is actually more of a deficit. Consider how many times people get angry over perceived slights. So it would seem to me to be better to just not automatically assume.

And as far as NT's keeping score - I have also figured that out and once Aspies do they can actually be much better at it. I prefer not to do it because I think it is childish - but I think NT's should be glad that Aspies don't often prescribe to that kind of thinking.

Plus they are logical and analytical. It's not really a job that appeals to extremely extroverted feelers. It would probably would be a good place. Your brain could be their perpetual project and they brain could be yours.

My experience has been,not that I dont care about others needs....I think I can be very "giving",the problem is when I cant tell if I am being used for something....I do so resent being manipulated and it is much to easy when I was younger,more so.

Also,there are so many people who will "suck you dry" if given the opportunity.If I had more resources(emotional or time),maybe that wouldnt be as big a problem,but I have found so many people who just cant seem to get enough.If I allow them to suck me dry,I wont have enough to take care of my own life.This has been a maajor issue in past relationships,more so with females then males.

And the males I have seen on this board seem a little nieve about females from lack of experience and exposure to them but not selfish...they seem more giving and open then many NT males I have known.Not nearly so brutal or maipulative.

perceived slights... yeah, that'll make anyone angry. i have trouble i think telling whether people are angry or not at me. it's hard for me to say HOW anymore.. but i've kinda trained myself to worry about whehter or not i've encroached on someone... much the same way i've trained myself to remember to check for my keys. (i bodycheck myself before leaving places... took a lot of key-losing to do that one!).. which i think is why it's hard for me to perceive how i misconstrue things anymore... i just know i have a tendancy to do so... so i worry about it and thus hopefully prevent future reoccurances.

I don't know that your run-of-the-mill NT really thinks about difference one way or the other. What I do think is that the so-called "treatments" and "interventions" for Autism and AS have been built around the assumption that we must change to be NTs in order to be happy. They've been devised to tell you "this is the right way" and "this is the correct way." No one assumed that when I was young because it had no name then. You were just "different" and NTs generally tried to think up reasons that were acceptable to them because they had no idea what was going on. To be honest most of them still don't because the information they are give about us is not about our brains and why we do this but rather what must be done in order to intervene so you do not end up this destroyed and unhappy being. What that fails to do is give credit to the Aspie/Autie and the NT. It's insulting to everyone. If you were missing a leg, most people would not expect you to walk as they did with two. If you couldn't hear, they wouldn't expect you to speak perfectly. NTs can adapt if they are give the right information in the right way. What they cannot do and neither can we is to figure this out magically with such strange, emotional driven information. It makes the Aspie/Autie feel bad about themselves and to be honest, doesn't help the NT much either. Both sides end up frustrated. The average NT just wants to understand in a way they can. Saying our problem is behavioral is a bad way to start off. We need to quit waiting for others to find a better way and find it ourselves. We have the know how and the reason to do it. Everyone would benefit if we did.

I also wonder if some women with issues might at first find a man with AS appealing because another NT man might not be amused with their antics. If a guy with AS thinks he already doesn't understand women than he might not notice some red flags. So some of these "difficult" relationships that these NT women are talking about as if it is entirely their AS partners "fault" could also have issues of their own. It is just easier to blame the AS. I also thinks that works in some relationships with AS women and NT men also.

This is where trust and honesty come in. My theme on the other page. If I have a furrowed brow and am staring off into space, you might think, "why are you so angry?!" You may be offended even and ask me what's wrong?. When I say, "I'm not angry, I'm fine", that should be it. You should either trust me because you know me well enough, or leave me alone.
This is where "blame" comes in. I'm minding my own business, walking down the sidewalk. Some stranger tries to make eye contact and then briefly lectures me on why I should smile and don't I know it makes me prettier?! He then goes home and complains about uppity women who won't give him the time of day.
This NT makes assumptions and then acts on them. This is a problem I faced all my life from family, friends of family and various acquaintances that not only didn't believe me when I explained myself but then continued to act on these false assumptions.

Krex: Ah, you have what I used to. To whit, heartwarming (and completely unfounded... and contradictory to all experience or sense...) faith in human nature.

See how far it serves you for armor. Heh.

I have been on a couple of parent groups (online) for a while and I don't think it is just that they don't understand but would be willing to change if this was explained to them. I was explaining about how sensory overloads are and how this mom could help her son by building trust and not by forcing the issue. Even knowing that I am someone with sensory issues I was told that they didn't want their kid to be avoidant and of course there is the thinking that AS behavior is all about being manipulative. A therapist on the group supported what I said and he was thanked for being so helpful (lol). SO I think the idea is that if it comes from another NT is it fine - but advice or perspective from someone on the spectrum is not considered equally valid. So I am not sure we are even in a position right now where we can simply speak for ourselves because there are NT's who do not think those on the spectrum are capable. We still need NT interpreters to confirm or validate our points. I think we need to be much more vocal as a community - but there is a long way yet it seems and large groups like Autsim Speaks seem intent on keeping those on the spectrum in their place.

That's a very important point. In Real Life discussions I hear either you are too autistic to know better (you can't really articulate for yourself) or you're not autistic enough to have valid opinions about autism. The other day, an autism mother was complaining about a celebrated Aspie and how he can't know what he's talking about, he's not really autistic and has never had kids. :bangsheadagainstwall:

Parent groups have already been fed the nonsense.

The people I deal with haven't had any "professional" skewing and that's probably why they have a clear mind. All I can say is that I don't experience those problems and that would be the most obvious difference.

No offense to any parents on here but I think parents can often be hysterical and irrational. i'm glad I'll never be one!