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kraftiekortie
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23 Dec 2015, 5:39 pm

It really seems like you have an excellent attitude to this.

Like I said, if you feel really overwhelmed, just pull over when you could safely pull over, collect yourself for maybe a few minutes, and get back on that road.

I do hope you are able to get a car soon; I find cars at least somewhat safer than scooters.



BirdInFlight
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23 Dec 2015, 5:52 pm

Adamantium wrote:
Is it possible that Bea's "overthinking" response was to the now deleted post immediately preceding it and not a direct response to the OP?


Possibly, but in either case it's annoying to tell people that, as I've seen her use the "overthinking" word more than once, it's becoming something I've noticed in her posts.

I find it ironic that she's hooked on saying that to people as, like I point out, overthinking is often something some of us live and breathe. It kind of comes with the territory. It's like telling us "aren't you being a bit anxious?" or "A bit anti-social?" It's like telling a person with no legs to stop moaning about the stairs.

"Aren't you overthinking" strikes me as a really redundant thing to say to someone with autism where many of us, that's part of our struggle. It doesn't need to be pointed out over and over.



BirdInFlight
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23 Dec 2015, 6:05 pm

Kirstie, you would only be in trouble for not declaring if you genuinely knew that you always feel affected, all the time, by your spectrum issues when driving.

If you feel in control and capable most of the time, you don't have to declare, and if you get into an accident and it comes out about your Asperger's and they challenge you for not declaring, your case is that the rule is to declare IF it affects your driving -- and that means all the time. But it doesn't.

Every driver, even NTs, have occasional moments in bad traffic situations where they feel stress and narrowly avoid accidents or even get into one. There have been studies done about soaring blood pressure in traffic, and that wasn't even autistic people. It's normal to react with stress to a freaky situation on the road, what matters is how you handle it, and that goes for plain old NTs too. What you experienced wasn't much different from something an NT would feel in the same situation.



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23 Dec 2015, 6:27 pm

Kirstie04 wrote:
BeaArthur wrote:
Wow, can you say "overthinking"?

Is this to me? I know I can't help but overthink most things to be honest.

No it was not, it was in response to a couple posts by Torstin that were philosophical, to put it mildly, and which he has since deleted. I did not think you were overthinking it. Sorry you thought so.


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neilson_wheels
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23 Dec 2015, 6:46 pm

BirdInFlight wrote:
Kirstie, you would only be in trouble for not declaring if you genuinely knew that you always feel affected, all the time, by your spectrum issues when driving.

If you feel in control and capable most of the time, you don't have to declare, and if you get into an accident and it comes out about your Asperger's and they challenge you for not declaring, your case is that the rule is to declare IF it affects your driving -- and that means all the time. But it doesn't.


I don't think this is correct, an impairment does not need to be constant to require disclosure. I'm all for supporting the OP but she has stated that there have been many times in the past where she has chosen to drive even when she knew she was not fit to. Kirstie, please be more responsible and seek help if you need to. If you did cause an accident, failure to disclose may also invalidate your insurance.



BirdInFlight
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23 Dec 2015, 8:42 pm

neilson_wheels, I see what you're saying. But the OP also stated:

"In normal circumstances, normal traffic levels, me being in a good, clear state of mind I don't believe my AS affects my ability to drive."

That can apply to people without autism too. People without autism have days when they know they shouldn't drive because they are stressed out, tired, distracted by something. It's even in the UK drivers handbook -- it recommends a person using their own judgement not to drive if they feel tired or stressed by something to the extent that it would impair them on that particular day, or journey.

So if NT people don't have to declare that some days they feel too much stress to drive, why should the OP declare the same? She says in normal circumstances and a clear state of mind, she doesn't believe her AS affects her ability to drive.

The rules don't state that you have to declare AS just because you have AS -- rather, they state that you have to declare it if you think it affects your ability to drive, and she doesn't.

The days she feels it does, however -- why are they any different to times when an NT feels stressed and frustrated or makes wrong decisions in bad traffic? They get that way too, but they don't have to declare anything.

My feeling is she should keep it to herself and make her own assessments day to day or journey to journey, just like anyone has to.

IF she has an accident they can't do anything to her if she states very firmly that she did not believe her AS affected her ability to drive, which is the truth, she said it in her post. They can't prove anything to the contrary, as their own statement says "if you think......" and neither can her insurers. It will be a "he said she said" case and if they try to make it about AS when she has insisted she firmly never believed her ability to drive is affected, thus based on that she was under no obligation to declare it as their own wording says to declare if IF you think it does affect your ability, then she can haul them over the coals for not believing her when their own wording allows for self evaluation.

She sounds like a deeply conscientious and responsible person, so in this case I don't think there's any reason for her to play their a-hole system and jeopardize her getting to drive at all. The system is all BS.

I mean, another thing they want you to disclose is eating disorders! That is BS. Screw them. There's a long list of total BS on their website. Some of this stuff is a stretch for them to argue "affects your driving."

And yet people with Alzeheimers are still permitted to drive.

Self-evaluation for level of affectedness is built into their little clause and she can fight them on that. They're fcked up anyway. This shouldn't even be there like it is for epilepsy or something that can clearly cause a problem. It's despicable that this clause even exists for Asperger's. If you can pass the driving test you shouldn't have to prove one more damn thing to them. NTs don't have to.



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24 Dec 2015, 6:54 am

Kirstie04 wrote:
Earlier today I had to ride my scooter down to the university library (4 miles across town).
I just had a moment where it just got too much; ridiculously busy traffic, sirens.... and I made a stupid decision to pull out of a junction when I shouldn't have and of course, a police car wasn't too far away. He pulled me over further down the road and asked me what happened. I knew what had happened, as I explained above but all I could do was stutter something about pulling out and said it was a bit of a stupid thing to do. He gave me a lecture about how it was dangerous and about riding safely and I just tried to say yes at the right places. I didn't get a ticket or anything, just the lecture.
In normal circumstances, normal traffic levels, me being in a good, clear state of mind I don't believe my AS affects my ability to drive. However looking back, I know in the past when I have been in many situations where I've been heavily affected by it and definitely should not have got in the car (regardless of the fact I didn't have a diagnosis until a month ago). I realise it's my responsibility to decide whether I'm safe to drive but in reality, my scooter is my lifeline to greater independence and it can be a difficult judgement to make.
My question is this: Do I have to or should I declare my diagnosis to the DVLA? I looked on the DVLA website and it says this 'Car or motorcycle licence:
You must tell DVLA if your condition will affect your driving. Fill in form M1 and send it to DVLA. The address is on the form'.
My fear is that I'll get my licence taken away or restricted somehow or something. On the flip side there is this info on the DVLA site :You can be fined up to £1,000 if you don’t tell DVLA about a medical condition that affects your driving. You may be prosecuted if you’re involved in an accident as a result. :-/


Absolutely do not tell them. If you answer yes to a question like that, then you are telling them, that you have a condition that is affecting your ability to drive safely. At that point they have a responsibility, based on what you told them, to take your driver's license away from you.

I had a friend once who answered yes to that question on a driver's license application. They immediately told her that in that case they could not issue her a driver's license. She couldn't understand why. I tried to explain to her, that she had just told them that, yes, she has a condition that will affect her driving ability.

Anyway, that's one of those questions that if you answer yes to, you are automatically disqualified from having a driver's license.


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BeaArthur
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24 Dec 2015, 9:02 am

BirdInFlight wrote:
Adamantium wrote:
Is it possible that Bea's "overthinking" response was to the now deleted post immediately preceding it and not a direct response to the OP?


Possibly, but in either case it's annoying to tell people that, as I've seen her use the "overthinking" word more than once, it's becoming something I've noticed in her posts.

I find it ironic that she's hooked on saying that to people as, like I point out, overthinking is often something some of us live and breathe. It kind of comes with the territory. It's like telling us "aren't you being a bit anxious?" or "A bit anti-social?" It's like telling a person with no legs to stop moaning about the stairs.

"Aren't you overthinking" strikes me as a really redundant thing to say to someone with autism where many of us, that's part of our struggle. It doesn't need to be pointed out over and over.

BirdInFlight, back off. Apparently I've inadvertently pushed one of your buttons. There is a corps of brainy oversensitive women here (all women) who find me threatening. I just ignore them, as I generally have something quite useful to say or say nothing at all. At times, telling someone they are overthinking can disrupt a perseverative thought process that is, in fact, overthinking. In the present thread, this was definitely the case, and not directed at the OP, to whom I've apologized for the misunderstanding.


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neilson_wheels
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24 Dec 2015, 9:22 am

Bird in Flight - I can see your point of view too.

I agree that our lives are generally over regulated and that insurance companies are a bunch of weasels.

I posted the quote and link on the previous page as people were posting that the OP should call DVLA and discuss the problem. That's the 'official' policy and it's up to her to interpret that however she fits, I'm not in anyway an official but hopefully she can save herself an awkward phone call. I think decisions like this, whether to disclose or not, are best made in a calm state of mind with a full understanding of all rights, responsibilities and possible repercussions.

It's this line from the OP that makes me concerned personally:

Quote:
However looking back, I know in the past when I have been in many situations where I've been heavily affected by it and definitely should not have got in the car


I do feel that a lot of people are complacent about safety on the road as driving is such a common thing to do. A bicycle is my main form of transport, i regularly have people pull out on me and cut me up. Obviously most of these drivers are NT and some do it deliberately too. I'm also not a perfect driver either.

As the OP seems to use a scooter as her main form of transport, she is also a vulnerable road user and needs to be actively defensive in her riding, this is hard to do if that person can be affected by a mental/emotional stress that they can not fully control. Over riding everything else I would like Kirstie to be safe when she is on the road.



Yigeren
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25 Dec 2015, 4:42 am

At least the OP can recognize when it's unsafe to drive and sees the problem. That's already right there a huge improvement over most people who drive around here. And I'm sure most of them are NTs.

We've got senile, or hard of hearing, or nearly blind elderly people driving dangerously and killing people at times. We've got idiotic people on cell phones. We've got people who think they are stunt drivers weaving in and out of traffic. We've got reckless teenagers.

If none of them have to report what horrible drivers they are, then why should the OP report anything?



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25 Dec 2015, 2:38 pm

I'm sorry to hear that. I'm terrified of getting pulled over. I usually don't drive much (especially if I am anxious). When I do drive, I tend to be overly cautious and I'm that person who drives 34 mph in a 35mph zone (sorry, guys). I prefer to get rides or carpool and offer gas money whenever possible but I do still have a car and am very afraid of driving anywhere. Most of the time, my car just sits.


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Kirstie04
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26 Dec 2015, 6:05 pm

Thanks to all who offered advice. Like I said, I know I tend to overthink things but that's just part of the way I am, so regardless, I still needed to think it through to some kind of conclusion.


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