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zkydz
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30 Dec 2015, 8:50 am

Ahhh, antidepressants. Such a strange thing to ponder because until you find the right one, it's a bit of a battle. too many people think that with the level of science we employee on a daily basis it's a bullet proof system.
Here is the reader's digest version of my antidepressant story:
been clinically depressed twice. Suicidal once, on the edge of being suicidal another time. All traits had been noted, but not understood.
Anyway, the first time, they hit the nail on the head with Prozac. It was 93 and it was the go to remedy. It worked very well for me. I had no side effects and it did what it was designed to do. Took 3 weeks to work though. Would have been a two week stay but my ex-wife was calling them and telling them that I was 'hooked on NyQuil". The irony of that is that she was:
a) using that to keep me away from the house while she cleaned me out, bank, house and all and left me thousands of dollars in debt by the time she was finished.
b) I hate Nyquil, but she always made me drink it so that I wouldn't cough and disturb her rest.

Anyway, the second time was rough though. They did not have Prozac in their dispensary and got started off with Paxil. Paxil makes some people sleepy. Me? It made me so jumpy and edgy I couldn't sit still and once they say just how bad it got, I was put on Wellbutrin. Not as bad as Paxil, but still not good. Required at least three other meds to control the side effects and allow me to sleep. Eventually, I was transferred to another facility and their dispensary had Prozac. Once on that, off came the other meds and the dosage went down. (Started me on a high dosage because of the previous 'cocktail') and eventually of it all together.

All was done under a doctor's complete supervision and I am very strict about following the directions.

The upshot? Anti-depressants can be very good. May take a while to find the right one and right dosage. Everybody's chemistry is so unique, what works for one does not work for all. It ain't cut and dried like nitro pills for heart patients. But, as mentioned above, it has to be done in concert with a proper lifestyle. Also, if you are entertaining antidepressants, then make sure you are not using other drugs or drinking as that can cause very strange side effects.

Had I have the information I have now and actually treated the causes of the depression (stress, lack of sleep, inability to cope in large crowds, inability to cope in social systems, change from small town environment to really big city, etc.) I would probably not have been depressed the first time.


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zkydz
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30 Dec 2015, 8:58 am

Yigeren wrote:
SSRIs and SSNRIs can cause physical dependence. The withdrawal symptoms can be dangerous. They can cause apathy along with the decrease in anxiety. They also can cause major weight gain.
Yeahhhhh, never experienced that at all. As far as the apathy part goes, that has to do with finding the right one. Never had any troubles with what I took other than them not mixing with my chemistry. Prozac (SSNRI, fluoxetine) did exactly what was required.

Upshot, nothing to play with, but under proper medical supervision can be good. But, be careful, some doctors are not as thorough as others and some are just lazy. Instead of seeking the right one (so many to choose from) they will just start to throw a cocktail at you to control side effects. Or, as in my case, the dispensary where I was being treated did not have what worked for me and could only get the ones that sort of worked. THEN came the cocktail.


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RAADS-R -- 213.3
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EQ -- 13
Aspie Quiz -- 186 out of 200
AQ: 42
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curiouscat1993
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30 Dec 2015, 9:45 am

InsomniaGrl wrote:
curiouscat1993 wrote:
When I was taking ritalin I felt really active and could study for hours with no rest thus helping me get good grades. I'm currently taking zoloft and I don't really feel that it works.


Why did you stop taking ritalin if you don't mind me asking?


I used to take paxil too and would make me very sleepy so had to take ritalin to counteract each other.



Jacoby
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30 Dec 2015, 10:30 am

I've been taking Wellbutrin, I don't think I am any less depressed but it does help with energy and concentration so you don't wallow as much and get things done. I mind Wellbutrin because it doesn't really have to many side effects compared to other antidepressants, does the opposite weight wise and doesn't screw with your libido. Does not help with anxiety, can make it worse, I take klonopin with it so it is managable. Wellbutrin is a non-SSRI and I guess a stimulant alternative, I am somewhat interested in trying a stimulant and the nurse actually brought that up as an idea the last time I saw her but I am afraid of giving up the anxiety medicine since they won't give you both at the same time(uppers/downers/whatever)



zkydz
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30 Dec 2015, 10:34 am

curiouscat1993 wrote:
I used to take paxil too and would make me very sleepy so had to take ritalin to counteract each other.

That's what's so weird about it. Everybody I've ever talked to say the same thing. But, they could see the physical agitation it caused me. Was really bad. And, the cocktail they tried to counter it with was ineffective. At least Wellbutrin wasn't as bad.

curiouscat1993 wrote:
....does the opposite weight wise and doesn't screw with your libido.....
Actually, that's more to do with the individual chemistry than the actual med. Let's just say that Mr. Happy wasn't so happy on wellbutrin and I went from a normal stocky build to Santa proportions. But, Prozac, which is known for causing issues gave me no trouble. I was 30 years younger the first time and 20 years younger the second time and, well, no worries there. Age is doing that for me now LOL.


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RAADS-R -- 213.3
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Aspie Quiz -- 186 out of 200
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Jacoby
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30 Dec 2015, 10:54 am

That's weird, I've dropped like 20lbs since taking it doing nothing(well more like not eating since I rarely feel hungry now) but I'm not a stress eater tho, the opposite of that, I think I was already trending down in weight because of that before I ever took the pill. I do think it is more common to lose weight than gain it.



helloarchy
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30 Dec 2015, 11:15 am

I've been on them for a fair few years now. Would've been longer but I refused to go on them at first, as I didn't want to become like my parents (popping antidepressants everyday). I cant say that I honestly benefit from them. I notice when I'm not on them, but that's mostly withdrawal. It's a bit of a wake up call, like a slap-in-the-face hello from the real me. So I take them, they help me sleep (otherwise up all night insomnia), and they can take the edge of some of my panic/anxiety. But mostly, I'm still severely depressed 95% of the time, with panic and mild insomnia. I constantly contemplate the idea of not taking any, and just embracing the real me like some barbarian.

Image



zkydz
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30 Dec 2015, 2:16 pm

helloarchy wrote:
....but that's mostly withdrawal....
You do realize you don't withdraw in the clinical sense.

From WebMD:
"When antidepressants that affect the brain chemical serotonin are suddenly stopped, the body may respond with physical and emotional symptoms caused by the sudden absence of increased serotonin levels that occur while taking the antidepressant. These symptoms are not technically the same thing as physical "withdrawal" from a drug. Physiological withdrawal happens when someone is taking a drug that can be addictive. This leads to craving and drug-seeking behavior. Antidepressants are not addictive or habit-forming. Unlike drug withdrawal, antidepressant discontinuation effects are not related to addiction but can reflect physiological consequences of stopping a drug, just as when someone with diabetes stops insulin."
Link for further reading:
http://www.webmd.com/depression/guide/w ... epressants

So, let's get the terminology correct.


_________________
Diagnosed April 14, 2016
ASD Level 1 without intellectual impairments.

RAADS-R -- 213.3
FQ -- 18.7
EQ -- 13
Aspie Quiz -- 186 out of 200
AQ: 42
AQ-10: 8.8


helloarchy
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30 Dec 2015, 8:18 pm

My apologies, I didn't know the term "withdrawal" was exclusively tied to addiction, I thought it was broadly used for withdrawing from any drug, whether addicted or not. From now on, I'll simply say "discontinuation symptoms" instead.



zkydz
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30 Dec 2015, 8:50 pm

helloarchy wrote:
My apologies, I didn't know the term "withdrawal" was exclusively tied to addiction, I thought it was broadly used for withdrawing from any drug, whether addicted or not. From now on, I'll simply say "discontinuation symptoms" instead.
No biggie. It's just that loose terms like that can actually harm things. Here is an example from personal experience.

I was involved with a visitation case once where the her-plaintiff's lawyer tried to paint a person as 'addicted' to antidepressants as a way of trying to bar the child's father from even seeing the daughter.

I also tend to get really picky about certain terms.

But, the discontinuation symptoms are real and can be devastating. There was a woman who was being treated for dual diagnosis once. She was mentally ill (depression) and chemically addicted. She went to a program that required regular attendance at an AA, NA, CA, (Any of the A's groups) and fell into a very stringent group. ALL foreign substances were banned and was convinced to give up the anti-depressants because it was another 'form of dependency'. Went off them without being tapered off and also nothing to keep the balance in her brain chemistry. She committed suicide.

You did not do that. Just illustrating the why of my replies.


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Diagnosed April 14, 2016
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RAADS-R -- 213.3
FQ -- 18.7
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Aspie Quiz -- 186 out of 200
AQ: 42
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InsomniaGrl
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31 Dec 2015, 5:00 am

curiouscat1993 wrote:
InsomniaGrl wrote:
curiouscat1993 wrote:
When I was taking ritalin I felt really active and could study for hours with no rest thus helping me get good grades. I'm currently taking zoloft and I don't really feel that it works.


Why did you stop taking ritalin if you don't mind me asking?


I used to take paxil too and would make me very sleepy so had to take ritalin to counteract each other.


Are you off the anti deps now?


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31 Dec 2015, 6:27 am

zkydz wrote:
Ahhh, antidepressants. Such a strange thing to ponder because until you find the right one, it's a bit of a battle. too many people think that with the level of science we employee on a daily basis it's a bullet proof system.
Here is the reader's digest version of my antidepressant story:
been clinically depressed twice. Suicidal once, on the edge of being suicidal another time. All traits had been noted, but not understood.
Anyway, the first time, they hit the nail on the head with Prozac. It was 93 and it was the go to remedy. It worked very well for me. I had no side effects and it did what it was designed to do. Took 3 weeks to work though. Would have been a two week stay but my ex-wife was calling them and telling them that I was 'hooked on NyQuil". The irony of that is that she was:
a) using that to keep me away from the house while she cleaned me out, bank, house and all and left me thousands of dollars in debt by the time she was finished.
b) I hate Nyquil, but she always made me drink it so that I wouldn't cough and disturb her rest.

Anyway, the second time was rough though. They did not have Prozac in their dispensary and got started off with Paxil. Paxil makes some people sleepy. Me? It made me so jumpy and edgy I couldn't sit still and once they say just how bad it got, I was put on Wellbutrin. Not as bad as Paxil, but still not good. Required at least three other meds to control the side effects and allow me to sleep. Eventually, I was transferred to another facility and their dispensary had Prozac. Once on that, off came the other meds and the dosage went down. (Started me on a high dosage because of the previous 'cocktail') and eventually of it all together.

All was done under a doctor's complete supervision and I am very strict about following the directions.

The upshot? Anti-depressants can be very good. May take a while to find the right one and right dosage. Everybody's chemistry is so unique, what works for one does not work for all. It ain't cut and dried like nitro pills for heart patients. But, as mentioned above, it has to be done in concert with a proper lifestyle. Also, if you are entertaining antidepressants, then make sure you are not using other drugs or drinking as that can cause very strange side effects.

Had I have the information I have now and actually treated the causes of the depression (stress, lack of sleep, inability to cope in large crowds, inability to cope in social systems, change from small town environment to really big city, etc.) I would probably not have been depressed the first time.


Antidepressants basically ruined my life. They started me on one at 13. I was depressed, sure, because I was being abused. Throughout my teens, one after another they tried. The situation didn't change, so of course they didn't work. I believe they are responsible for many of the behavior problems I had, and for the apathy I developed.

In young adulthood, put on another. It had a very short half-life. If I didn't take it almost right on time, I'd get so ill. I'd lose motor coordination, walk into things, sweat profusely, headaches, weakness. Couldn't get off of the floor.

So they switched me to another. Slightly better, but it made me gain more weight. After awhile, I realized they did nothing for me. I tried several times to taper off. Got so very ill, and suicidal. I gave up, switched to another. Gained more weight.

Finally, enough was enough. I tapered myself off for months. And I was on a low dose to begin with. I lost all the weight rapidly without effort. I became mentally unstable, extreme anxiety, suicidal thoughts, for months. Then it all stabilized and I regained my real personality. I realized how different I had become on the antidepressants. No real strong emotions. No ambition. I had let my life just pass me by because I had no motivation.

I hate the doctors that didn't bother to find out what was really wrong and took the easy way out by medicating a child. I never had a chemical imbalance. My depression was due to life situations. I do have anxiety, but that's just part of who I am.

I'm glad that everything worked out for you, but I think people should be very careful before taking anything that alters brain chemistry. Doctors do not know everything.

Oh forgot to add the list of psych meds over the years:

Prozac: 13-14 yrs

Trazadone: 15 yrs -made me sleepy

Luvox with Zyprexa(antipsychotic used for anxiety off-label): 16-17 yrs

Effexor with Risperdal(don't know why the Risperdal, never was psychotic): 19-24ish

Paxil
Wellbutrin
Cymbalta



zkydz
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31 Dec 2015, 7:54 am

Yigeren wrote:
I'm glad that everything worked out for you, but I think people should be very careful before taking anything that alters brain chemistry. Doctors do not know everything.
They sure don't. Some are better than others and some are just bad. But, if you're only listing the few you did, then there were other factors. There are more than those few to try or choose from.
In any eventuality, the fact that your experience is colored as opposed to mine and many others would be the indicator that all of these choices must be made carefully and if not happy with a doctor's response to your situation, go get another doctor. They are not your friend. They are not there to comfort you. They are there to find a way to make you better. If they are not doing that, then go get another.

Yigeren wrote:
Effexor with Risperdal(don't know why the Risperdal, never was psychotic): 19-24ish
The fact you were on a medication at 19-24 and don't know why is not your doctor's fault. You were certainly old enough to advocate for yourself to get the information.


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RAADS-R -- 213.3
FQ -- 18.7
EQ -- 13
Aspie Quiz -- 186 out of 200
AQ: 42
AQ-10: 8.8


Yigeren
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31 Dec 2015, 8:09 am

Well, I was told it was for anxiety. I stopped it at 19. OBGYN put me on effexor again because I was moody and pregnant. I didn't really know much back then. And I was completely dependent at the time on my parents. Situation was much more complicated than that but it's not something I can talk about online.

I am a totally different person now. I do advocate for myself. I had to learn to do my own research and listen to myself when I became ill.

I just think people generally aren't aware of all the possible complications of these drugs and should do as much research as possible before taking anything.



zkydz
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31 Dec 2015, 8:28 am

Yigeren wrote:
I just think people generally aren't aware of all the possible complications of these drugs and should do as much research as possible before taking anything.
I agree. Too many people want the 'magic bullet' that will do it for them. Ain't going to happen. As I said, I had to work like hell to find the right ones that worked. And, that was limited to the availability of only certain types within the dispensary. And if that person is not wanting to do the other work to get better, anti-depressants ain't gonna do it by themselves.

Individual chemistry is too important to ignore.

I almost got tossed from my program because I kept testing positive for amphetamines. With all those eggheads pointing fingers at me, and swearing by the PDR (All of 'em) except one person. Her name was Joyce. She is probably the most responsible for putting me back together. She believed me because she had anecdotal evidence that Wellbutrin would create such a condition. So, one day it occurred to me to find the manufacturer of Wellbutrin. I had to do all the contact, call and speak. Turns out that they required a doctor (my doctor) to be the person to make the official contact to get the proper documentation sent to them to verify my account. It was not listed in the PDR because my results, though documented, were so rare it did not change the PDR definition, But, it did happen enough that they had to properly acknowledge it through confidential sources.

So, it's not easy. Matter of fact, it can be quite difficult. But, it can work if you work it as well.


_________________
Diagnosed April 14, 2016
ASD Level 1 without intellectual impairments.

RAADS-R -- 213.3
FQ -- 18.7
EQ -- 13
Aspie Quiz -- 186 out of 200
AQ: 42
AQ-10: 8.8


Yigeren
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31 Dec 2015, 8:40 am

zkydz wrote:
Yigeren wrote:
I just think people generally aren't aware of all the possible complications of these drugs and should do as much research as possible before taking anything.
I agree. Too many people want the 'magic bullet' that will do it for them. Ain't going to happen. As I said, I had to work like hell to find the right ones that worked. And, that was limited to the availability of only certain types within the dispensary. And if that person is not wanting to do the other work to get better, anti-depressants ain't gonna do it by themselves.

Individual chemistry is too important to ignore.

I almost got tossed from my program because I kept testing positive for amphetamines. With all those eggheads pointing fingers at me, and swearing by the PDR (All of 'em) except one person. Her name was Joyce. She is probably the most responsible for putting me back together. She believed me because she had anecdotal evidence that Wellbutrin would create such a condition. So, one day it occurred to me to find the manufacturer of Wellbutrin. I had to do all the contact, call and speak. Turns out that they required a doctor (my doctor) to be the person to make the official contact to get the proper documentation sent to them to verify my account. It was not listed in the PDR because my results, though documented, were so rare it did not change the PDR definition, But, it did happen enough that they had to properly acknowledge it through confidential sources.

So, it's not easy. Matter of fact, it can be quite difficult. But, it can work if you work it as well.


That sounds like an awful lot of trouble to go through for something that wasn't your fault to begin with. It's really commendable that you have the intelligence and persistence to advocate for yourself and make informed decisions.

I wish everyone had that ability, but some people just aren't intelligent enough or are too young or inexperienced to know that doctors are not infallible.

Sometimes it takes getting really screwed over by a doctor to realize they aren't the all-knowing, superior beings people seem to think they are.

When I got sick, I just kept switching doctors until I found one that actually made sense. I got four entirely different diagnoses for the same symptoms from four different doctors. When I pointed out to the one that her diagnosis made no logical sense, she just looked at me like I was an idiot and repeated herself.