The Unwritten rules of the NT world

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While an individual layperson can explain things their own way, an official resource would be much more useful, yet it doesn't seem to exist.



Can you or anyone else give me more info about these classes and books?
Also, how effective have these been? Have they been effective in eliminating or atleast minimizing to a great degree the social difficulties of the aspie taking them?
Would like the input of people who have taken these classes or read these books please.

Books for children isn´t a bad place to start.
This isn´t bad either: https://www-users.cs.york.ac.uk/alistair/survival/

There really isn't ever going to be anything official when it comes to social skills. These are all going to be different depending on the culture.

The culture is more than just the country or region that one is in. There's the culture of whatever business one is in, each neighborhood has a culture, each religious institution, school, socioeconomic class, generation, etc.

It's so much more complicated than any book can write. Our culture changes constantly now because of the fast and constant exchange of information across large numbers of people around the world.

There will be some basics that will apply to a particular country or area, but all the other subtleties can't really be written down or explained. That's probably why NTs pick up on these things naturally.

Some of those books are going to be outdated or too generalized, also.

I like to try to ask people what I'm doing wrong, and try to make as many observations as I can to learn on an intellectual level. Many NTs can just instinctively know what is going wrong if they observe the interactions of another person.

DOOD! Read the title of this thread, then read the fourth sentence of my post, and then get with the context! There is nothing morally wrong with being disabled; it is just how many NTs that I've known view disabilities - THEY seem to think that it's somehow "morally wrong"!

SHEESH!

I like the idea of using children's books; I never really thought about it but much of my social skills were learned through books as I was always sort of a bookworm even as a kid. I have used books to teach my kids all kinds of social skills and interaction in social situations. The books my 2nd grader brings home from school are pretty lame--due to the current cultural climate of political correctness much of the content useful in the context of helping aspies navigate the social world has been eliminated. I would go with books from the 1960's through 1980's--not that all will be helpful but there was a lot more stuff about navigating the social world, understanding when people are trying to take advantage, etc.

Some we have found helpful:
Frances books by Russell and Lillian Hoban--series about a little badger who gets into all kinds of interesting situations with her friends. My favorite is "A Bargain for Frances" which specifically addresses Frances' conflict with her little friend Thelma who has a history of taking advantage of Frances. At the end of the book, after Frances has caught onto Thelma's little games, the following exchange takes place:
Thelma: "I see I am going to have to be careful from now on, when I play with you."
Frances: "Do you want to be careful, or do you want to be friends?"
The two of them decide that being friends is better than having to be careful. This is the kind of conflict that aspies struggle with and even as an adult, I still use some of the techniques Frances learned in the books. The book "Best Friends for Frances" deals with kids being left out of activities...I have found Frances to be really helpful for my kids, and funny too.

There is a book called "Good Neighbors" by Diane Redfield Massie which deals with how to get along with your neighbor and who will truly be there when you are in dire need.

"I Wish that I Had Duck Feet" dealing with wanting to be someone you are not...the author escapes me at the moment...

"A Dog on Barkham Street," "The Bully of Barkham Street," both by Mary Stoltz. Dealing with bullies from the perspective of the bully and the bullied.

I could go on for a long time--if you want more titles pm me. I found a lot of these books on ABE books--I think some are available on amazon as well.

The NT rules listed above do indeed correspond to what i often hear around me, when i think of it. It can be good or bad, but if it helps understanding, it is good to know in order to understand relationships. Hope there are more to come

Theodor Geisel - aka "Theo LeSieg", aka..."Dr. Seuss"!

I should have known! it was one of my favorite books as a child and my kids all loved it too.

Oh my Lord! Not again. (Runs out of room screaming)

NT's that you know - let's emphasize that. And what are you doing to help these NT's see AS differently? Have you tried to educate them?

I was thinking that etiquette books might be of some help. A lot of NT's don't know how to act in certain situations and these are made just for that. One I was reading told how to act at a dinner party, or at work or on a plane or in the a gym locker room. I'd like to read these myself. "Dear Abbey" used to always be in the newspaper with a column on how to act with certain situations. I wouldn't think bad about yourself about not knowing what to do in certain situations - NT's have those same problems too.

Of course I have. They either deny that the "unwritten rules" are valid, or they try to justify their use of those "unwritten rules".

Even the ones who claim that they want to help seem to believe that their attitudes have no bearing on how aspies might react to them, and they place the blame for any negative reactions solely on the aspies themselves.

I seem to remember someone posting a list of NT behaviors and only the NTs getting upset about it, while the aspies encouraged expansion of the list with their own contributions.

I'll see if I can find that list ...

That's because some of the things you posted about NT's were not correct, but you posted them with such arrogance that you appeared to others to be correct. Until you have lived as an NT then you cannot speak for them.

By justifying the use of why they use those unwritten rules, they are trying to help. Are you not willing to listen?

And you can pull that list out all you want - because until you have lived as an NT, you definitely are no expert on saying why we act like we do. That is why I stopped discussing anything with you. You have a closed mind in regards to learning anything about NT behavior, BUT you are more than willing to put the blame on NT's for not wanting to learn more about you. That's narcissistic. I have an open mind and want to know more about Aspies or I wouldn't be here. What about you? You learn anything more about NT behaviors lately? Or is this supposed to all be just one sided learning with you not having to do any work but be heavy on the critism?

I'm half convinced - in a purely facetious, almost fantasy sort of way - that etiquette was invented so that AS/ASD people in upper society could go unnoticed. A convention in which NT people had to conform as much as we do. In reality, it came about for different reasons, but a very beneficial one for people on the spectrum was that the rules were unyielding and recognizing someone's oddness was itself considered a violation of good behavior. In today's mainstream society however, following formal etiquette in almost any non-formal setting will immediately get one labeled as being on the spectrum and "other".

I just want to mention, I don't agree with most of these anti-NT sentiments that I see on WP. Many NTs have caused me misery, but to just decide that all NTs are bad based on the behavior of some is really unfair.

There are good and bad people of all kinds. I don't really understand NT behavior or thought processes much of the time, but just because they think differently from the way I do doesn't mean they are wrong or bad.

There are so many nice, intelligent, caring NT people in the world in addition to the bad ones.

I think that Etiquette can give an idea of how to behave in different situations although, you can appear uptight in a more non-formal context. All in all, it is always better to look too polite than too rough...

I think that there are few general rules, it is more about adapting the behaviour to the group and the situation (for NT and AS).

I think that due to my Asperger, i naturally clearly avoid looking at people, it is like there is a wall between them and me, like if i was blind. Of course, that doesn't help me to see and memorise their behaviours in each situation. NT watch people's behaviours naturally, since they were children and then they have a lot of information about how to behave.

Now, when i go to the cinema, i watch the characters. It is nice because it is much easier for me to observe characters on a screen than to look at real people in a situation in which i am involved. I try to memorise how they behave, analyse the situation and try to understand the link between the situation, the character and the behaviour. Of course, it is only cinema, but it gives a lot of basic information on how to adapt the behaviour to each situation, place, people. The more the story is basic and uninteresting, the more it gives accurate and interesting information about behaviours.

I have just started to practice the technique, so i can’t yet say if it will work good or not.

Last edited by LaetiBlabla on 23 Jan 2016, 6:12 pm, edited 2 times in total.