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nurseangela
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08 Feb 2016, 5:14 pm

rude1 wrote:
nurseangela wrote:
I rehearse my order several times before I call Pizza Hut.


I did not mean rehearsing so you simply don't forget what you're ordering. I mean bracing yourself because not only are you terrified of speaking, so you're able to verbally say the sentence correctly.

And once again, if this doesn't apply to you, it's not addressed to you...


Again, if one is in the group that you are addressing, then of course they are going to take offense to what you are saying because they have to stand up for their side and try to explain the things you don't understand. Do you want to understand NT's, or are you just letting off steam?

Example: The read between the lines thing. There is no way for us NOT to do it - our brains are wired like that. We can't change it so why expect us to? I'm wired to make assumptions. Sorry. If I found things about you as an Aspie that I would like you to change, are you going to change? No, because you probably can't. Same with NT's. We have to have small talk. It's imperative for our well-being. We're really not nuts. Same as you needing your alone time. Of course, there are the people that are going to overdo things to try to make themselves "look better" like the Facebook friend thing you were talking about, but I've also seen some pretty boisterous Aspies (just watch Mozart and the Whale) and you'll know what I'm talking about. People are all different and should be treated on a case by case bases.


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Your neurodiverse (Aspie) score: 83 of 200
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nurseangela
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08 Feb 2016, 5:18 pm

DestinedToBeAPotato wrote:
I didn't spot a single lie in this post - although not all NTs engage in sickeningly sycophantic behaviour, this is ultimately how society functions as a whole. This is what is expected of people, in order to become popular, one must dilute one's authenticity and individuality until they become mediocre and bland (paraphrasing Oscar Wilde here).


I don't understand this post at all. In today's society, there has never been more freedom to be who or what you want to be. Society has no restraints at all in my book. I see everything as a freaking free-for-all. :roll:


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Your neurodiverse (Aspie) score: 83 of 200
Your neurotypical (non-autistic) score: 153 of 200 You are very likely neurotypical
Darn, I flunked.


nurseangela
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08 Feb 2016, 5:28 pm

conciouscohort wrote:
Hello,

I like your post. I am a concious NT. I wrote a book about a strange experience. I'm not sure what to do with it.
I would very, very much appreciate feedback or interest from those on the spectrum. Conscious NT is a big claim, but I never lie.
Below is a brief description of me and the book. If it interests you, contact me and I will give you a link to read the full book on the web.
No cost or anything, no download necessary, and new input for you.


My name is Claire Hoogstra, and I am a thirty-one year old advocate of autistic intelligence. I currently live with my husband Brandon, who is on the autism spectrum, and our two young kids in Latin America. I have a B.A. in Communication Studies from Hollins University in Virginia, though I didn't like school.

This book is about my opting to become homeless with my husband prior to our marriage and having children. It explores the nature of autistic intelligence, the lack of recognition of its existence, and it follows us through the beginning of a difficult journey. Throughout, I maintain a position that autism is really just the vestiges of the male mind trying to crop back up in a now insanely feminist world. My writing is not anti-female though, just pro-male. In my telling of our story, I also offer many observations about the state of mankind on this planet, which can be bleak given the situations that we face during our travels. I intend to plant a seed of doubt in a reader's mind about what is commonly considered to be right versus wrong in the way we interact with one another and the world around us, while simultaneously offering hope in other possibilities.

The story opens with my return to the U.S. from South Africa in 2009, where I was trying to help my father achieve his dream of establishing a space for those on the spectrum to live apart from neurotypicals and create unique things without being weighed down by all of the rule sets of the world in its current state. Believing my mother could be integral to the salvation of the project, having been sent away by my father when our funding was cut, I return to live with her as an adult. Over the course of one year spent in my mother's house, I begin to lose interest in her importance, growing agitated with the revelation that she seems to show no compassion for anything, and I grow increasingly anxious to embark on a life with Brandon, a diagnosed schizophrenic man who I am in love with.

Brandon and I met several years before during a period of enlightenment for both of us. For him, this was a time of realization that he was a lot less nuts than he thought and everyone else was a lot less sane. It was then that he reached out to my father, believing himself to be autistic and met me. Because Brandon had such a profound impact on me since he came into my life, I find myself terribly distraught over the hard fact that he is now nearly dead due to the damage the world has inflicted on him. I resolve that I will either commit suicide or join up with Brandon. He finds a way to bribe the director of the halfway house he is living in to let me stay under the pretense that I am an addict, and from there, we begin a journey that is both horrible and beautiful all at once.

We spend several months living among rough men in the recovery home before leaving in late Winter to become homeless. With nowhere to go that will allow us to stay together, we venture into the unknown. We sneak into a downtown building to sleep, stay at a forgotten campground for several weeks, experience life in a homeless shelter, crash in a dilapidated, vacant motel, and sleep behind a church by the sea while we travel through mill towns and bay side beach cities. Finally, we make it back to where we started and are able to give birth to our son, who gives us his protection until we can make a heavenly alternative to life on Earth as we know it or die trying.

My book isn't all about the dark side either. After all, the two main characters are creatures of light, meaning that their intentions are pure. There is accidental humor sprinkled throughout coupled with light-hearted sarcasm.
-Claire


I'm not understanding this. Is this a fiction book or how you really want your life to turn out? When someone has schizophrenia, that's a whole completely different mindset from Aspergers. And if it's a true book, I'm not understanding the wanting to commit suicide and the having children when you are homeless. I'm trying to find the logic in this way of living.


_________________
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I'm happiness challenged.

Your neurodiverse (Aspie) score: 83 of 200
Your neurotypical (non-autistic) score: 153 of 200 You are very likely neurotypical
Darn, I flunked.


StarTrekker
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08 Feb 2016, 6:01 pm

The way I interpreted the OP's letter, he wasn't asking NTs to change, to not read between the lines, to not engage in small talk, etc., he was just asking NTs to be okay with the fact that aspies don't read between the lines, don't do small talk, and are sometimes too overwhelmed to perform the social niceties NTs expect, but which we don't always see a purpose for. I think he was trying to ask NTs to be as accepting of us and our behaviour as we have to be of theirs, and, in my opinion, ignorance of autism because the world is made up primarily of NTs is not a valid excuse for not knowing how to treat us. I would like it if, when an NT who had never heard of autism saw me acting in ways they didn't understand, they told me they didn't understand, and asked, in a respectful, curious, and non-judgemental manner, why I behaved that way, assuming that I have a good or logical reason for it, instead of jumping to the conclusion that I'm just weird or rude. If I don't understand an NT's behaviour, I ask them why they did it, to try to learn. However, most NTs are so weirded out at being asked to explain their behaviour that they just laugh at me, or get annoyed and don't bother to answer. It hurts my feelings when they laugh, or think I'm not worth their time or bother, and it frustrates me too, because I still don't have an answer for why the NT acted the way they did.


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conciouscohort
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08 Feb 2016, 6:55 pm

Hey nurseangela, you are attacking me directly and pretending to be concerned. What exactly do you nurse? Other than the notion of your own importance. No, this is not a fictional book, obviously. And schizophrenia is closely linked with autism, which by the way was a misdiagnosis. Who said anything about Aspergers? And what on God's great Earth are you talking about with all of your insane assumptions? I've never spoken with a thicker skilled person. Why are you on here, to feed on these people. I'm well educated and normal brained. All NTs consider ending their lives at some point. Limited scopes such as yours make this world a terrible place. And no, I didn't conceive or have children while homeless. That's utterly ridiculous. Stating you've seen the entirety of something because you half heartedly glanced at a description of it is a mark of the perpetually useless and jaded.



rude1
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08 Feb 2016, 8:14 pm

conciouscohort wrote:
Hey nurseangela, you are attacking me directly and pretending to be concerned. What exactly do you nurse? Other than the notion of your own importance. No, this is not a fictional book, obviously. And schizophrenia is closely linked with autism, which by the way was a misdiagnosis. Who said anything about Aspergers? And what on God's great Earth are you talking about with all of your insane assumptions? I've never spoken with a thicker skilled person. Why are you on here, to feed on these people. I'm well educated and normal brained. All NTs consider ending their lives at some point. Limited scopes such as yours make this world a terrible place. And no, I didn't conceive or have children while homeless. That's utterly ridiculous. Stating you've seen the entirety of something because you half heartedly glanced at a description of it is a mark of the perpetually useless and jaded.


She attacked me too, as if I do not have the right to an opinion. If you don't like or understand me post, don't read it.


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rude1
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08 Feb 2016, 8:15 pm

nurseangela wrote:
rude1 wrote:
nurseangela wrote:
I rehearse my order several times before I call Pizza Hut.


I did not mean rehearsing so you simply don't forget what you're ordering. I mean bracing yourself because not only are you terrified of speaking, so you're able to verbally say the sentence correctly.

And once again, if this doesn't apply to you, it's not addressed to you...


Again, if one is in the group that you are addressing, then of course they are going to take offense to what you are saying because they have to stand up for their side and try to explain the things you don't understand. Do you want to understand NT's, or are you just letting off steam?

Example: The read between the lines thing. There is no way for us NOT to do it - our brains are wired like that. We can't change it so why expect us to? I'm wired to make assumptions. Sorry. If I found things about you as an Aspie that I would like you to change, are you going to change? No, because you probably can't. Same with NT's. We have to have small talk. It's imperative for our well-being. We're really not nuts. Same as you needing your alone time. Of course, there are the people that are going to overdo things to try to make themselves "look better" like the Facebook friend thing you were talking about, but I've also seen some pretty boisterous Aspies (just watch Mozart and the Whale) and you'll know what I'm talking about. People are all different and should be treated on a case by case bases.


I DID NOT SAY YOU HAVE TO CHANGE....


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rude1
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08 Feb 2016, 8:17 pm

nurseangela wrote:
rude1 wrote:
EzraS wrote:
I generally don't like most people all that much, pretty much for the kind of stuff listed above. But for me a majority of the people I've had a problem with, have very thoroughly diagnosed autism. As a whole people tend to be irritating, annoying, intrusive, condescending, rude, self absorbed, attention seeking and all that. Even the ones with autism.


Yes, I can understand that. People with autism are people too and definitely not exempt from wrongdoing. I was just speaking of my experiences with certain NTs :wink:


And I've had problems with certain Aspies. :wink: Each person is going to be different. If I posted a long letter about the problems I've had with Aspies, I'm sure to get the same kind of replies that you're getting from me. But I know that all people aren't the same. All threads like this do is make the gap between Aspie and NT even bigger. Any person would take offense to it if you're on the side that is being discussed. How are you trying to understand NT's any better? Read any books lately? Or are you just wanting us to change? It goes both ways. You are never going to feel like the NT side has done anything to change for you because there are way too many NT's and MOST don't know about Aspergers. They just think that you are "different". I would go by the people (NT's) that you do know - are they doing anything to get to know you more and why you do the things you do? If not, then they aren't worth your time. Same goes for me, if I'm in a friendship/relationship with an Aspie and they don't know why I act like I do and try to understand me more, then they aren't worth my time.



So, I don't have the right to feelings based on things I've experienced in my life. Since you seem incapable of reading plain english:

1. I DID NOT ASK YOU TO CHANGE

2. I DID NOT TELL YOU TO CHANGE

3. I DO NOT WANT YOU TO CHANGE


I WANT NTS TO STOP EXPECTING ME TO CHANGE. MY OPINION, MY RIGHT.


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rude1
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08 Feb 2016, 8:19 pm

I posted here to express my feelings and now I'm having a meltdown :shaking:

When I joined here I thought I could safely express myself with other people who understand me...is there a way to block people on this site?


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rude1
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08 Feb 2016, 8:25 pm

Also I'm not asking NTs to explain because I don't understand. I'm able to accept people without understanding. I want them to do the same...do I have to keep repeating myself here?


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kraftiekortie
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08 Feb 2016, 9:02 pm

I believe in neurotypicals meeting autistic people halfway.

I believe in autistic people meeting neurotypicals halfway.

I don't see why neurotypicals can't learn to understand, at least in some sense, autistic people

And vice versa.

There are good NT's and bad NT's.

There are good autistic people and bad autistic people.

We are all the same subspecies: Homo sapiens sapiens.



rude1
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08 Feb 2016, 9:10 pm

kraftiekortie wrote:
I believe in neurotypicals meeting autistic people halfway.

I believe in autistic people meeting neurotypicals halfway.

I don't see why neurotypicals can't learn to understand, at least in some sense, autistic people

And vice versa.

There are good NT's and bad NT's.

There are good autistic people and bad autistic people.


This is what I meant in my last sentence. I meet "bad" neurotypicals halfway everyday, but it seems the ones I know struggle to do the same for me. By no means was my post speaking for all people with autism, I was speaking for myself. I have compromised with NTs many times, and in my experience, which a certain PP knows nothing about, they have failed to do the same for me.

That's all I meant.

And perhaps I'd have issues with people with autism too, but the issues I've faced with people have mainly been with the mainstream NTs. Again, my experience.


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08 Feb 2016, 11:27 pm

kraftiekortie wrote:
I believe in neurotypicals meeting autistic people halfway.

I believe in autistic people meeting neurotypicals halfway.

I don't see why neurotypicals can't learn to understand, at least in some sense, autistic people

And vice versa.

There are good NT's and bad NT's.

There are good autistic people and bad autistic people.

We are all the same subspecies: Homo sapiens sapiens.

I whole-heartedly understand the sentiment of having a hard go in an NT-dominated not-autistic-friendly world, especially in more hostile places or cultures. However, there are good NTs out in the world. I don't personally know very many, but if I took that to believe that NTs are mostly bad or 99% bad that would just be an example of the availability heuristic on my end. I tend to get along with autistics much more, but I have also met autistic people I couldn't stand or who were rude terrible people that were unkind to others. A lot of it has to do with exposure I believe. I also think that once I am exposed to more autistics and educated NTs I will see this ratio tip a bit more to a balanced level, but I don't know for sure.

However, I agree that both NTs and autistics need to work very hard to understand each other and themselves, because the heart of the issue is that both parties are going to keep on existing and keep on miscommunicating and keeping on in general, so it's important to be as diplomatic as possible in the interim :wink:
Although, when I am having a bad day or whatever, I want to settle down either in RL or on the internet with people (again usually autistics) who understand me or are at least willing to lend a sympathetic ear, and for me that's what matters in the long run! :D



rude1
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08 Feb 2016, 11:50 pm

Unfortunate_Aspie_ wrote:
I whole-heartedly understand the sentiment of having a hard go in an NT-dominated not-autistic-friendly world, especially in more hostile places or cultures. However, there are good NTs out in the world. I don't personally know very many, but if I took that to believe that NTs are mostly bad or 99% bad that would just be an example of the availability heuristic on my end. I tend to get along with autistics much more, but I have also met autistic people I couldn't stand or who were rude terrible people that were unkind to others. A lot of it has to do with exposure I believe. I also think that once I am exposed to more autistics and educated NTs I will see this ratio tip a bit more to a balanced level, but I don't know for sure.

However, I agree that both NTs and autistics need to work very hard to understand each other and themselves, because the heart of the issue is that both parties are going to keep on existing and keep on miscommunicating and keeping on in general, so it's important to be as diplomatic as possible in the interim :wink:
Although, when I am having a bad day or whatever, I want to settle down either in RL or on the internet with people (again usually autistics) who understand me or are at least willing to lend a sympathetic ear, and for me that's what matters in the long run! :D


I responded to your other thread :) It frustrates me when I cannot discuss my own personal experiences without people getting defensive. They think I mean all NTs which is illogical because I don't know every NT in the world.. :roll: . I have met some nice NTs, usually either on the internet or people in RL who have someone close to them with autism, such as a child. I don't socialize with anyone too much as leisure and my scope is limited to mandatory situations, like when I go to the grocery store or college-and it's not even single people-it's the mainstream view of society.

I also live in the south [US] so perhaps that has something to do with it.


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09 Feb 2016, 12:04 am

nurseangela wrote:
DestinedToBeAPotato wrote:
I didn't spot a single lie in this post - although not all NTs engage in sickeningly sycophantic behaviour, this is ultimately how society functions as a whole. This is what is expected of people, in order to become popular, one must dilute one's authenticity and individuality until they become mediocre and bland (paraphrasing Oscar Wilde here).


I don't understand this post at all. In today's society, there has never been more freedom to be who or what you want to be. Society has no restraints at all in my book. I see everything as a freaking free-for-all. :roll:



Okay, then why do we have to meet all kinds of social standards especially to be employed like but not limited to eye contact, shaking hands and other things? Can I be employed somewhere and make a decent living without having to do these things and without having to be confident as is defined by mainstream society? Can I be my natural self and still expect to be employed? Can an autistic person be their natural self and expect to gain employment and remain employed? If not, then what you say is a complete and utter lie.



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09 Feb 2016, 3:13 am

rude1 wrote:
Also I'm not asking NTs to explain because I don't understand. I'm able to accept people without understanding. I want them to do the same...do I have to keep repeating myself here?


I didn't say you were asking them to explain, only that I ask them to explain, and they don't. I don't like not understanding peoples' behaviour and motives, it makes me anxious.


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