How many traits can a person be lacking and still have ASD?

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03 Mar 2016, 1:02 am

I don't really understand where people are getting the idea that having an autistic trait or two is the same as having autism.

The criteria are there for a reason. It's to distinguish between those who may have autistic traits but are not impaired, and those that have autistic traits and are impaired by them enough to be considered to be disabled and to have autism.

DSM V Criteria:

Quote:

Diagnostic Criteria for 299.00 Autism Spectrum Disorder

A. Persistent deficits in social communication and social interaction across multiple contexts, as manifested by the following, currently or by history (examples are illustrative, not exhaustive; see text):
1. Deficits in social-emotional reciprocity, ranging, for example, from abnormal social approach and failure of normal back-and-forth conversation; to reduced sharing of interests, emotions, or affect; to failure to initiate or respond to social interactions.
2. Deficits in nonverbal communicative behaviors used for social interaction, ranging, for example, from poorly integrated verbal and nonverbal communication; to abnormalities in eye contact and body language or deficits in understanding and use of gestures; to a total lack of facial expressions and nonverbal communication.
3. Deficits in developing, maintaining, and understand relationships, ranging, for example, from difficulties adjusting behavior to suit various social contexts; to difficulties in sharing imaginative play or in making friends; to absence of interest in peers.

Specify current severity:

Severity is based on social communication impairments and restricted, repetitive patterns of behavior.

B. Restricted, repetitive patterns of behavior, interests, or activities, as manifested by at least two of the following, currently or by history (examples are illustrative, not exhaustive; see text):
1. Stereotyped or repetitive motor movements, use of objects, or speech (e.g., simple motor stereotypes, lining up toys or flipping objects, echolalia, idiosyncratic phrases).
2. Insistence on sameness, inflexible adherence to routines, or ritualized patterns of verbal or nonverbal behavior (e.g., extreme distress at small changes, difficulties with transitions, rigid thinking patterns, greeting rituals, need to take same route or eat same food every day).
3. Highly restricted, fixated interests that are abnormal in intensity or focus (e.g., strong attachment to or preoccupation with unusual objects, excessively circumscribed or perseverative interests).
4. Hyper- or hyporeactivity to sensory input or unusual interest in sensory aspects of the environment (e.g. apparent indifference to pain/temperature, adverse response to specific sounds or textures, excessive smelling or touching of objects, visual fascination with lights or movement).

Specify current severity:

Severity is based on social communication impairments and restricted, repetitive patterns of behavior.

C. Symptoms must be present in the early developmental period (but may not become fully manifest until social demands exceed limited capacities, or may be masked by learned strategies in later life).
D. Symptoms cause clinically significant impairment in social, occupational, or other important areas of current functioning.
E. These disturbances are not better explained by intellectual disability (intellectual developmental disorder) or global developmental delay. Intellectual disability and autism spectrum disorder frequently co-occur; to make comorbid diagnoses of autism spectrum disorder and intellectual disability, social communication should be below that expected for general developmental level.

As I understand it, within section A, a person must have deficits in all three categories, either currently or by history. Within section B, a person must have symptoms in a least two of the four categories, either currently or by history.

These symptoms must be present in the early developmental period, and must cause clinically significant impairment in social, occupational or other important areas of current functioning.

So without meeting those necessary criteria, a person is not considered to have an ASD.

For me personally, I have impairments in all three categories in section A. I also have symptoms in all four categories of section B. My symptoms were present in early childhood, and cause many impairments in my daily functioning. Yet I'm considered to be only mildly autistic. So I don't see how a person with one or two traits would be able to be diagnosed at all.

ChristianSmith
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03 Mar 2016, 1:46 am

I sometimes struggle with the fact that I'm aspie. For instance I will go out tonight to some art galleries and say hello to lots of people. But the great thing is I can be as 'weird' as I like, because there's lots of other 'weird' people. I say hello to people , but always never get into conversation for too long, makes me feel really uncomfortable. I generally arrive late and leave early. There's always the excuse that I have other art galleries to go to. I love art, but dislike most people, I love odd people though.

I was totally honest in the aspie quiz to just check, but as you can see below, I am most likely aspie

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Joe90
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03 Mar 2016, 7:53 am

What is SCD, may I ask? And I often doubt my ASD diagnosis. You see, at school I think I was underestimated by adults who assessed me. I didn't have sensory issues, only with sudden loud noises. But there was only one noise that bothered me, and that was the bell. So at 7 years old I would cover my ears when walking through the hallways because I was worried the bell would ring, but to adults I was mistaken for covering my ears because of the loud chattering of the children. Then when I was asked if the noise of the children bothered me, I lied and said yes, because I thought they might not understand my phobia of the bell. So that went down on my assessment. Also I got upset if the day routine at school was temporarily changed for the day, because I didn't want to coincide with the bell, which still rang at the normal times, so I needed to specifically ask the teacher what the temporary altered day would be like, and I ordered them to write it down. This was all because of the bell, which got confused by the adults with me just not liking routine change, which also went on my assessment. And being shy with general anxiety went down on the assessment too, until I received an ASD diagnosis.

That sounds made up, but believe me it is NOT. I really had an intense phobia of electric bells, even now I have nightmares about them, and as a kid it got confused with an ASD. If some genius didn't invent electric bells, or I wasn't phobic of them, I think I would have been diagnosed with ADD and anxiety disorder. That would have been much better for me.

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03 Mar 2016, 10:08 am

ZombieBrideXD wrote:

Pieplup wrote:

...the Sonic person...

Lol i like it, i wish everyone called me The Sonic Person,

Well, I get called the Blue Penguin Person IRL.

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03 Mar 2016, 10:10 am

There is a Diagnosis that is like Person with Autistic Traits, or Mildly Autistic.

Yigeren
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03 Mar 2016, 1:58 pm

@Joe90

Social communication disorder (SCD) is new to the DSM-V and is not autism or even mild autism.

Quote:

The following criterion is from the 2013 Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders Fifth Edition, DSM-5™. See the DSM-5™ for details and examples.

DSM 5™ 315.39 (F80.89)

A. Persistent difficulties in the social use of verbal and nonverbal communication as manifested by all of the following:

1. Deficits in using communication for social purposes, such as greeting and sharing information, in a manner that is appropriate for social context.
2. Impairment in the ability to change communication to match context or the needs of the listener, such as speaking differently in a classroom than on a playground, talking differently to a child than to an adult, and avoiding use of overly formal language.
3. Difficulties following rules for conversation and storytelling, such as taking turns in conversation, rephrasing when misunderstood, and knowing how to use verbal and nonverbal signals to regulate interaction.
4. Difficulties understanding what is not explicitly stated (e.g., making inferences) and nonliteral or ambiguous meaning of language (e.g., idioms, humor, metaphors, multiple meanings that depend on the context for interpretation.)

B. The deficits result in functional limitations in effective communication, social participation, social relationships, academic achievement, or occupational performance, individually or in combination.

C. The onset of the symptoms is in the early developmental period (but deficits may not become fully manifest until social communication demands exceed limited capacities).

D. The symptoms are not attributable to another medical or neurological condition or to low abilities in the domains of word structure and grammar, and are not better explained by autism spectrum disorder, intellectual disability (intellectual developmental disorder), global developmental delay, or another mental disorder

Honestly, Joe90, your symptoms as you have stated seem more like those of anxiety disorders rather than either autism or social communication disorder. You seem as if you may have social anxiety disorder, generalized anxiety disorder, and possibly attention deficit disorder.

You have no troubles with social instinct, nearly no sensory issues, no special interests/obsessions, and no repetitive behaviors. That makes me seriously doubt ASD as a valid diagnosis and would also rule out social communication disorder. If you were to be reevaluated, it's possible you wouldn't qualify.

Joe90
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03 Mar 2016, 2:57 pm

^^^

Very interesting. I think I should get re-evaluated anyway. SCD, anxiety disorder and AD(H)D describe me much more than ASD.

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Idealist
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03 Mar 2016, 3:34 pm

WoW_Wow wrote:

How many of the big Asperger's characteristics does a person have to be lacking before we can say the person doesn't have Asperger's?

There are almost 700 mainline Autistic Traits, having at least one of them means that you're on the spectrum, though you'll be very unlikely to get an accurate diagnosis with just one trait, unless of course it's one of the severely crippling low functioning traits.

Most people with an official diagnosis usually have between two to three dozen mainline Autistic Traits, but you could legitimately get a diagnosis on 5-6 middling traits.

I can be difficult to figure out just how many traits a person actually has, and is usually something that only they will know for sure when their older.

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Idealist wrote:

My Autism was cured/treated in late childhood (this makes me a walking, talking, contradiction to 90% of the Forum who all believe Autism is incurable)

ZombieBrideXD
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03 Mar 2016, 7:39 pm

Idealist wrote:

I cant even begin to explain how WRONG this is.

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ASPartOfMe
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03 Mar 2016, 8:06 pm

Idealist wrote:

WoW_Wow wrote:

Having one trait means you are on the human spectrum, not the Autism spectrum, not remotely close to the autism spectrum. EVERYBODY IS NOT AUTISTIC. And you will not get diagnosed with just one trait no matter how crippling unless the clinician is utterly incompetent. You have to have most of the core traits and they all do not need to severe.

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Yigeren
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03 Mar 2016, 8:15 pm

Idealist wrote:

WoW_Wow wrote:

How many of the big Asperger's characteristics does a person have to be lacking before we can say the person doesn't have Asperger's?

Having one autistic trait does not mean a person is on the autism spectrum. A person must meet the criteria for an autism spectrum disorder for either the DSM-V or the ICD-10, depending on the country.

Here are the ICD-10 guidelines for the various autism spectrum disorders found in the ICD-10: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmedhealth/PMH0042130/

If every single person who had an autistic trait was considered to be on the autism spectrum, there'd be no one left who wasn't.

Idealist
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03 Mar 2016, 8:51 pm

ZombieBrideXD wrote:

I cant even begin to explain how WRONG this is.

ASPartOfMe wrote:

Yigeren wrote:

Out of the many thousands of traits and minor nuances within the Autistic Spectrum, why do you think those 700 are called the "mainline" Autistic Traits?

Indeed.

This is why it is important to read peoples Posts properly before jumping to conclusions.

In all seriousness though, why would you fail to read the word "mainline", and all three of you misread.

It's fine.

It was an easy mistake to make.

I'm just going to pretend that it was a coincidence that three separate Members, with three separate agendas just made an honest mistake. It happens to everyone I'm sure...

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Hope is the first step on the road to disappointment, but the last step on the path to salvation.

Idealist wrote:

My Autism was cured/treated in late childhood (this makes me a walking, talking, contradiction to 90% of the Forum who all believe Autism is incurable)

Feyokien
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03 Mar 2016, 9:00 pm

Idealist wrote:

ZombieBrideXD wrote:

I cant even begin to explain how WRONG this is.

ASPartOfMe wrote:

Yigeren wrote:

You've opened a can of worms because you said people with only one trait are autistic. I'm inclined to disagree as well. Traits are the result of symptoms. Different symptoms of different conditions can cause similar traits. Cause and effect. Link to anything that talks about 700 mainline symptoms, google yields nothing besides this thread.

Idealist
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03 Mar 2016, 9:05 pm

Feyokien wrote:

You've opened a can of worms because you said people with only one trait are autistic.

You're missing a very important word there, it was in my original Post, and I highlighted it in the follow-up Post.

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Hope is the first step on the road to disappointment, but the last step on the path to salvation.

Idealist wrote:

My Autism was cured/treated in late childhood (this makes me a walking, talking, contradiction to 90% of the Forum who all believe Autism is incurable)

TheAP
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03 Mar 2016, 9:09 pm

I think what people are saying is that you can't be diagnosed with just one symptom.

Cyllya1
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03 Mar 2016, 9:10 pm

Idealist wrote:

The word "mainline" doesn't really seem to help. "Mainline" just means mainstream, well established, widely accepted, etc. I think there are actually a lot fewer than 700 traits that are widely accepted to be associated with autism (unless you're getting so super-specific to the point that "hates toe seams in left sock" and "hates toe seams in right sock" are two different traits).

Since you're so educated about why these 700 traits are called mainline traits, maybe you could explain that instead of getting snarky when people complain about you saying something that sounds ridiculous. While you're at it, who calls them mainline traits? Who decided those traits are mainline and why? What're some examples of mainline or non-mainline traits? Post a link or something, sheesh.

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