We are normal and NTs are actually abnormal!

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I see where your coming from, but I'm saying aspies are very logical beings and communicate very well through logic, we just don't follow the illogical practices that don't have anything to do with gaining knowledge or furthuring the survival. As you said without aspies 9/10 of the modern world wouldn't be where it is today.

Yeah, it's kind of like brain power is going towards things like inventing TVs and cell phones, rather than knowing exactly what you're supposed to say when gathered around the water cooler.

Actually evolution was almost exclusively European for many years. It was brought by English as they spread around the world dominating other cultures. And considering how many cultures have creation stories and do not think that the Western world and thought is the pinnacle of civilization it would be odd that it is peculiarity only to the US.

I also don't think that Aspie thought is "wrong" but depending on the culture may be seen as deficient. That is why so many believe there is an epidemic of autism right now because the culture is so programmed to being social and at a very early age that the gap widens. Not saying that in the past people on the spectrum were not excluded or mistreated - but they migt also have been considered just different and not someone in need of reprogramming or shunning. Some cultures also have a wider range of acceptance for different behaviors.

Why does it matter whether we are 'normal' or 'abnormal'? Ultimately, it doesn't matter--we'll still be the same and have the same advantages and disadvantages, regardless of whether we are normal or not.

animals have social structures too... so that doesn't really apply

interesting discussion.
in the 60s the we were trying to break through "normal" and arrive at....hyper normal? new ideas. better solutions perhaps. and many were quite useful and sucessful and remain in our culture today. but we also discovered that ideas of change were not as relevant or lasting on their own as they were when coupled with convention. my discussion tonight with my 16 yr old NN was in regards to convention. He saw his way of life as being "the" right way to do things...but i wanted to know how that alone would "cricket" with the needs of the family. does that make sense?

Yup,I agree with you.
Nobody questions the monkey theory over here in Northern Europe.
Well,me possibly...cause I dont believe we came from monkeys OR the big bang......
and Im not very religious either.

think thing that irks me... is that it's not even tha humans decended FROM monkeys... but that both humans and monkeys descended from something else....

not that i think that would make it much better for THOSE people... but w/e... if you're gonna blindly deny something... at least get it right...

edit: oh and FunnyFairytale... i didn't read your post through wholey... i was not attacking you... just the relgious types that are "offend" by the monkey stuff

Ikambokem,

I agree and disagree, I am like that. Up till a couple of hundred years ago most people lived by farming. You do not have to go back far till 99% lived a very rural life, isolation, and they needed a social network, self defense, fire brigade, in very small area. They are clodhoppers.

Another 1% lived in towns, for there were few cities. Towns were places of skill and knowledge, with extended connections, blacksmiths, coopers, wagon builders, potters, all the skills that were too complex to do on the farm. Towns were connected to the trade networks, they bought iron, coal, and sold their production, and the surplus farm production they took in payment.

Farm folk might come to town several times a year. They were totally dependant on their neighbors not to steal their livestock and loot their house. Few ever went ten miles from where they were born.

Bright children would not be of much use on a farm, so they were sold off as apprentices. The normal age was about seven, they were indentured, sold for seven years, for room, board, and an education in a trade. They were not paid, it was formal child slavery. At fourteen they were journeymen, free to work for another Master. Some stayed and worked for wages, part of the system, because they had no tools of the trade.

A good trade would take a prentice boy every few years, so any one would be no loss. The general death rate was high, life short, and fifteen year old's married and started farming. Those apprenticed married later, their Master was not a parent, but an employer, so bright children that drove their parents nuts with questions, you know the type, were no longer parented, they were worked. Basic training involved a strap of leather. Soon they were settled down to work, and their minds focused on the work.

Most served ten years, working for one Master, and they got very good at it. Trades were set up as Guilds, and even after ten years they were not allowed to take prentice boys, first they had to work for several Masters, and after fourteen years in the trade, show their skill to a group of Masters, The Masterpiece, when they gained full rights, and could set up their own shop and take prentices. They were twenty-one.

It was a lonely and isolated life, lots of endless repatition, no social life, and demands for intense focus. It did lead to an independant life at 21, with social status, a higher and more regular income than farmers, and the only limits were in smarts. Even in towns prentice boys were outcasts, they could not marry, so no dates, they were owned, and the property of others is respected, and only other prentice boys to talk to.

They were the knowledge workers of the time, and the cooper's boy needed a smiths boy who would make the tools he would need later. Both were under orders, so a few words in passing, a quick glance, was all the contact they had. The did have a network of older boys, who might become Master by the time they became Journeymen. They had a limited and purposeful social world.

They also met others in trade, someone delivered the iron, and told of the foundry, of other towns, and even of cities. The skilled and mobile just about fit the current percentage of aspies.

The social order of the time shows that prentice boys could rise very high, at thirty he could have a large shop, several Journeymen, and many prentice boys, and be retired in a nice home, and set for life from the income, and eventual sale of the business. He knew the trades, markets, and he had capital. He could finance other trade. He became a member of the Merchants Guild.

Masters were highly respected people, they were industry and trade, and any prentice boy with drive and smarts could become one. From what I have read, they used up the aspie supply.

Later when due to overproduction of children by farmers, they could not survive on the land, were not bright enough for trade, but they moved to the towns, cities, and created an underclass of day laborers, as they had no skill but a strong back and weak mind. Cities declined, in London in 1700 the consumption of Gin was a quart a day per man, woman, and child. 90% lived in total poverty. The farms continued overproducing children, more flooded into the cities, and it was not a safe place to be.

To survive in the cities they formed gangs, and were super social, continually reenforcing their social bonds, for identity was life. It was short and drunken, but it was all they had. So NT socialization is a new thing, formed in the last few hundred years.

I think the reason we get such a bad reaction from NTs is we remind them of the owner class, we are smart, observent, and strangers have offered to beat me up, made war on my self employment, because they know they lack the skills to make it other than as a gang member. When I work with them I think of the Bloods and Crips, wearing colors, signing, talking code, for they are going to sell rock on this corner.

In New Orleans the Catholics gang bang the Protestants at the office. Outside New Orleans, the Baptists work to destroy the Catholic economy and take over the town. They do unite to keep the Blacks down, and as I do not belong to any gang, and am smarter than their chosen future leaders, they all have to come after me, because their gang needs those jobs. The Blacks will win because they talk to me, they do not want to fight it, they want to learn it. Black people think aspies are some of the few likable white people.

A milliom pound hammer is about to land on the NT world. With half as many jobs and no homes they have to fight each other. Those who depend on a world of social and communication skills are going to have to eat each other.

I am a swamp ape, it is within walking distance, I can live well for years out there. I eat raw food, can wear a coat of mud, and sleep in a nest in a tree. Survival has to do with real world skills. I have a world in one backpack. I can rise up to the pure life of an animal.

My advice is the non smoking veggies taste best.