What happens with adults who got ABA as kids?

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Edenthiel
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12 May 2016, 12:16 am

kraftiekortie wrote:
ABA has existed since at least the 1970s. I believe Lovaas did his study late 70s-early 80s.

The person who was one of the subjects of the Lovaas Study is about 45 now.


If I'm not mistaken though, early references to it will usually be found by searching for the, "Lovaas model" or "Lovaas therapy" (or was it "technique"?). And at the time it was just one of countless similar models and therapies all based on behavior modification, including those pushed by Masters & Johnson claiming to "cure" gay people, to give one extreme example. Turns out that one was a complete falsehood, entire studies fabricated to fulfill expectations of a follow up book.


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kraftiekortie
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12 May 2016, 12:21 am

Lovaas called it "Discrete Trial Training." I believe he thought of it as an aspect of ABA.

ABA probably became more well-known after the famous Lovaas study of 1987.

His first studies were actually in the 1960s

He was a behavioralist. Many of them are rather cold people.



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12 May 2016, 12:32 am

somebody300 wrote:
Could anybody explain the setbacks of ABA? As far as I know, it's one of the only effective autism therapies, and it had been consistenly shown to improve functioning in those with an ASD.
I'm not an expert in the topic though - is there a reason why the benefits of ABA don't outweigh the costs (emotional or others)?

Granted, ABA isn't perfect, but are there any better alternatives? It still seems to benefit those with autism, even when accounting for the emotional and other costs.


Edenthiel wrote:
You won't find any instances of ABA being used on people who are now say, mid-life adults because it didn't exist *by that name* when they were children. However, they - we - were children in the era when Psychology and Psychiatry fully bought into what is known as the Blank Slate theory. The idea is that in a very B.F. Skinner wordview, every human is born with an identical brain, one that is purely plastic. All abilities, strengths, weaknesses and failures can be attributed to learned behaviors. Keep in mind that there never was any actual science behind this, it was just a pet theory that seemed "common sense" enough that everyone bought into it. The result was that many if not most autistic children of that era were brought up in an environment that very much resembled ABA in practice.

I actually think ABA has some merit, but having been raised in that era can see that ABA is mostly targeted toward parents who want to "fix" their children's autism and make it go away. If the actual end goal was to bring each autistic person up to the highest level of functioning they can reliably maintain without damage, their methods and the underlying assumptions would be very different.


While Skinner's ideas weren't perfect, modern behavioral psychology and neuroscience have been shown to be highly predictive and consistent with the evidence up to date. In fact, it's the most empirically and scientifically supported school of psychology (with psychoanalysis being the least supported by science and present day empirical data).


Behavior modification can work wonders for changing learned behaviors. But, except for the special case of learned phobias, it does not alleviate the reason or motivation for the unwanted behaviors. This is where ABA fails; it has an underlying assumption that all behaviors - and the motivation for them - is learned and so can be unlearned. That's not the case with stimming, or sensory sensitivities, or auditory processing disorders or spacial issues or [insert other Autism symptom here].

Behavior modification can be used to force some autistics to conform to acceptable standards of public behavior*. But at the price of damaging them by trying to bluntly repress both the behavior and the motivation beneath it. The frustrating thing is that it should be possible to design a school of therapy that teaches autistics how to conform as much as we want to or feel we need to, including alternate expressions, knowing that we are postponing the expression of the motivation. Not blocking them completely or eradicating them. It would also ideally include lessons teaching each autistic how to identify our personal internal 'danger' signals leading up to meltdowns, as well as levels of environmental stimulus that we can handle (and the signs that we need to leave, NOW).

It would also teach that the price to pay for conforming when needed can sometimes be steep both physically and emotionally, and the recovery period quite time consuming.

*Please consider the ethical and moral implications of that statement.


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Last edited by Edenthiel on 12 May 2016, 12:34 am, edited 1 time in total.

Edenthiel
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12 May 2016, 12:32 am

kraftiekortie wrote:
Lovaas called it "Discrete Trial Training." I believe he thought of it as an aspect of ABA.

ABA probably became more well-known after the famous Lovaas study of 1987.

His first studies were actually in the 1960s

He was a behavioralist. Many of them are rather cold people.


Ooooh, I remember studying that many years ago in some upper division psych course taught by the school's resident behaviorist expert! Thank you KK!


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12 May 2016, 2:15 am

ABA suporters have numorous peer reviewed studies concluding it works or at least as they define working to support thier conclusions. What the supporters do not publicize is those same peer review studies conclude that in order for it to "work" it needs to be applied consistantly often. The more breaks from ABA or when the amount of hours is reduced the desired effects lesson.

So it likely even without the maturity and possible negative effects factors a lot of Autistic Adults who are ABA veterens are probably "more autistic" then when ABA stopped

Even if the desired results are truly desirable ABA is at best a temp fix a band aid. The massive amount of therapy needed for ABA sucks up enormous amount of time and money for families and thier insurence companies. Because ABA is considered the "gold standard" treatment probably research that could lead to more permenent help is not bieng done and questioning if the desired results are truly desirable is not bieng done by Autism policy makers.


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somebody300
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12 May 2016, 6:01 pm

Edenthiel wrote:
somebody300 wrote:
Could anybody explain the setbacks of ABA? As far as I know, it's one of the only effective autism therapies, and it had been consistenly shown to improve functioning in those with an ASD.
I'm not an expert in the topic though - is there a reason why the benefits of ABA don't outweigh the costs (emotional or others)?

Granted, ABA isn't perfect, but are there any better alternatives? It still seems to benefit those with autism, even when accounting for the emotional and other costs.


Edenthiel wrote:
You won't find any instances of ABA being used on people who are now say, mid-life adults because it didn't exist *by that name* when they were children. However, they - we - were children in the era when Psychology and Psychiatry fully bought into what is known as the Blank Slate theory. The idea is that in a very B.F. Skinner wordview, every human is born with an identical brain, one that is purely plastic. All abilities, strengths, weaknesses and failures can be attributed to learned behaviors. Keep in mind that there never was any actual science behind this, it was just a pet theory that seemed "common sense" enough that everyone bought into it. The result was that many if not most autistic children of that era were brought up in an environment that very much resembled ABA in practice.

I actually think ABA has some merit, but having been raised in that era can see that ABA is mostly targeted toward parents who want to "fix" their children's autism and make it go away. If the actual end goal was to bring each autistic person up to the highest level of functioning they can reliably maintain without damage, their methods and the underlying assumptions would be very different.


While Skinner's ideas weren't perfect, modern behavioral psychology and neuroscience have been shown to be highly predictive and consistent with the evidence up to date. In fact, it's the most empirically and scientifically supported school of psychology (with psychoanalysis being the least supported by science and present day empirical data).


Behavior modification can work wonders for changing learned behaviors. But, except for the special case of learned phobias, it does not alleviate the reason or motivation for the unwanted behaviors. This is where ABA fails; it has an underlying assumption that all behaviors - and the motivation for them - is learned and so can be unlearned. That's not the case with stimming, or sensory sensitivities, or auditory processing disorders or spacial issues or [insert other Autism symptom here].

Behavior modification can be used to force some autistics to conform to acceptable standards of public behavior*. But at the price of damaging them by trying to bluntly repress both the behavior and the motivation beneath it. The frustrating thing is that it should be possible to design a school of therapy that teaches autistics how to conform as much as we want to or feel we need to, including alternate expressions, knowing that we are postponing the expression of the motivation. Not blocking them completely or eradicating them. It would also ideally include lessons teaching each autistic how to identify our personal internal 'danger' signals leading up to meltdowns, as well as levels of environmental stimulus that we can handle (and the signs that we need to leave, NOW).

It would also teach that the price to pay for conforming when needed can sometimes be steep both physically and emotionally, and the recovery period quite time consuming.

*Please consider the ethical and moral implications of that statement.



Using Applied Behavior Analysis to force conformity is obviously counterproductive, useless, and unethical.
But what about using it to control problematic behaviors which cause harm to the person with autism or others? I'm talking about behaviors like head banging and hitting oneself (which is still a very big problem in my case), severe meltdowns with self-injurous or otherwise damaging behaviors, and so on.

I'm against it being used to force conformity, but it does help (and had been shown to help according to the evidence up to date) to reduce behaviors that are actually problematic.

Also, in some cases, ABA can be used to establish means of communication with someone with autism who is otherwise unable to communicate verbally. By that, I mean that many people with autism were successfully taught to use means of communications like cards, tablets, and so on, thanks to ABA.