Ever known anyone with anxiety who actually appears to be AS

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League_Girl
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18 Jun 2016, 12:35 am

ZombieBrideXD wrote:
League_Girl wrote:
ZombieBrideXD wrote:
My whole family. Anxiety runs in the family deeply. My family members dont like socializing, have panic attacks and tend to keep to themselves. No one else in my family is autistic though.



But do they act like they are on the spectrum though?


My dad does big time, he doesnt like people, got picked on as a kid, likes to stay in the comfort of his home, gets obsessed with things but its not to the extent of an autistic person.


Why did he get picked on?

How does he get obsessed and what are his obsessions like?


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ZombieBrideXD
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18 Jun 2016, 5:52 am

League_Girl wrote:
ZombieBrideXD wrote:
League_Girl wrote:
ZombieBrideXD wrote:
My whole family. Anxiety runs in the family deeply. My family members dont like socializing, have panic attacks and tend to keep to themselves. No one else in my family is autistic though.



But do they act like they are on the spectrum though?


My dad does big time, he doesnt like people, got picked on as a kid, likes to stay in the comfort of his home, gets obsessed with things but its not to the extent of an autistic person.


Why did he get picked on?

How does he get obsessed and what are his obsessions like?


He gpt picked on for being small i think, there may have been other reasons.

His obsessions are not obsessions per say, just atrong short lived interests, hell research them all day and talk about them. Hes also repetitive and watches the same movie over and over but like i said my whole family does this. I think my autism was missed because my family has some triats and they were overlooked until they became a real problem.


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josh338
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18 Jun 2016, 6:35 am

ZombieBrideXD wrote:
He gpt picked on for being small i think, there may have been other reasons.

His obsessions are not obsessions per say, just atrong short lived interests, hell research them all day and talk about them. Hes also repetitive and watches the same movie over and over but like i said my whole family does this. I think my autism was missed because my family has some triats and they were overlooked until they became a real problem.

I think that's very common -- 50% of the the close relatives of people with autism are Broader Autistic Phenotype, which means that they have some autistic traits but not to the degree that it would become clinically significant and be called a disorder.



josh338
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18 Jun 2016, 6:46 am

League_Girl wrote:
I keep hearing about anxiety and autism overlapping like how it can actually turn out someone just has anxiety than autism but has anyone ever known anyone who had routines, did self stimulation, had a hard time keeping and making friends and maintaining them, difficulty with body language and reading them and reading social cues, taking things literal, not liking surprises or change, had special interests and engaged in it for hours, talked about their special interest all the time, have odd body postures and odd facial expressions, have problems with communication and executive functioning except they were not autistic, they just have anxiety?

If someone was self diagnosed with autism because it explained their whole childhood but it turns out it was all anxiety they have after being assessed for it, would this mean they have had anxiety stemming from their early childhood maybe from age of two when they started to show signs? Same as if kids thought they were weird, rude, mean, and selfish and made comments about their postures and facial expressions and behaviors they do they find strange?

But I guess this would be good news because it would mean they would only need medication and cognitive behavior therapy and seeing a mental health therapist for OCD and anxiety than seeing a developmental therapist and wham their "autism" symptoms would lessen. But yet I am sure they would still be able to relate to ASD people and fit in here because of the exact same symptoms. I would call it autxiety or Asperxiety. What if they were also intentionally diagnosed with an ASD because of their anxiety due to the degree of support they need, do you think they should join autism support groups? Or do you think they are better off joining anxiety support groups despite their ASD like symptoms?

It seems to me that if someone had the qualities in your first paragraph, I would think they were almost certainly autistic. I've known highly anxious people who didn't have most of these traits. For that matter, I've known Aspies who didn't have some of them, or exhibit them in an obvious way.

You will often find *some* of these traits in people who don't have autism, e.g., my father had terrible posture, but wasn't autistic, just as you'll find people who don't have some of these traits but meet the DSM criteria for autism.

My own Aspie anxiety seems to be highly tied up with uncertainty -- my default seems to be that if I'm not sure of the outcome of a situation I'll become highly anxious, even though I know objectively that an issue is minor.



League_Girl
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18 Jun 2016, 12:14 pm

ZombieBrideXD wrote:
League_Girl wrote:
ZombieBrideXD wrote:
League_Girl wrote:
ZombieBrideXD wrote:
My whole family. Anxiety runs in the family deeply. My family members dont like socializing, have panic attacks and tend to keep to themselves. No one else in my family is autistic though.



But do they act like they are on the spectrum though?


My dad does big time, he doesnt like people, got picked on as a kid, likes to stay in the comfort of his home, gets obsessed with things but its not to the extent of an autistic person.


Why did he get picked on?

How does he get obsessed and what are his obsessions like?


He gpt picked on for being small i think, there may have been other reasons.

His obsessions are not obsessions per say, just atrong short lived interests, hell research them all day and talk about them. Hes also repetitive and watches the same movie over and over but like i said my whole family does this. I think my autism was missed because my family has some triats and they were overlooked until they became a real problem.



Lot of it sounds like PTSD from what you describe except for the obsessions part. That part sounds ASD and as another person wrote, ASD traits are common in families when they have someone on the spectrum. My dad lacks good social skills and will say socially inappropriate things and he doesn't get it, he isn't ASD. He does offend people and embarrass my mother. But he also has ADHD.


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18 Jun 2016, 1:44 pm

When I looked for help way back, I did because of obsessions/compulsions and other types of anxiety. Back then, Asperger's didn't exist for people like me, despite the same manual it was interpreted very differently and people that got diagnosed had to have a very poor theory of mind. Like I was told I cannot have this because I can tell people and objects apart... (Seriously???)

I wish psych care actually HAD targeted my problem area with something like behavioral therapy, because I think it would have helped me, despite fact I actually have AS and not "just" anxiety. I think the same methods would have helped me and had me on my way in life.

Unfortunately anything behavioral was still highly unpopular (where I live), so I was soon in the hands of the psychodynamic clan who said I was borderline with a weak ego. I got no help with anxiety, they felt they had to smash and reshape my "faulty personality". I can say they managed the first part. They never came around to rebuild me as a non anxious person.

I'm pretty sure the way they ran me into the ground (also threw medication at me I had bad reactions to), helped me being less functioning than I could have been. If all this had not happened, I probably would have been a subclinical aspie, maybe today wondering if I am a spectrum person, but since I would have had a life, I would not have qualified for a diagnosis perhaps.

Just a few thoughts.



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18 Jun 2016, 2:52 pm

League_Girl wrote:
I would call it autxiety or Asperxiety. What if they were also intentionally diagnosed with an ASD because of their anxiety due to the degree of support they need, do you think they should join autism support groups? Or do you think they are better off joining anxiety support groups despite their ASD like symptoms?

I think they might get some benefit from joining an autism support group. It would at least give them the chance to study autism in depth and find out how strongly they matched up to the ASD cluster of traits. And if anxiety was causing them enough misery, an anxiety support group might be very helpful too, so I'd say try both. An anxiety medication wouldn't care what the anxiety was due to, it would still work, so I'd say the decision there is about the risks and benefits. One has to be a little bit careful though - I've read that ASDers are usually kept out of drug safety trials, and if that's true then one's suspicion of having ASD would logically factor into the risk assessment.

I think it can often be very hard to definitively work out whether or not to apply a particular psych label. I think it's often better to acknowledge the inherent uncertainty in these things, and that it can be dangerous to jump to hard and fast conclusions, because that's when people can end up taking unnecessary meds or refusing meds that could help them. I think that much of it is trial and error, and I prefer to focus on the traits and the symptoms, because we can be more certain about those. I can see the attraction of looking for a diagnostic label. Those things can work very well for a lot of physical ailments - e.g. with stomach pain I'd want to know if I needed an antacid or something for an ulcer, etc., but with physical ailments we know a lot about the organs concerned and things are often pretty clear-cut, while with the mind, it's more likely that nobody can really work out what it is.



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18 Jun 2016, 3:14 pm

ToughDiamond wrote:
League_Girl wrote:
I would call it autxiety or Asperxiety. What if they were also intentionally diagnosed with an ASD because of their anxiety due to the degree of support they need, do you think they should join autism support groups? Or do you think they are better off joining anxiety support groups despite their ASD like symptoms?

I think they might get some benefit from joining an autism support group. It would at least give them the chance to study autism in depth and find out how strongly they matched up to the ASD cluster of traits. And if anxiety was causing them enough misery, an anxiety support group might be very helpful too, so I'd say try both. An anxiety medication wouldn't care what the anxiety was due to, it would still work, so I'd say the decision there is about the risks and benefits. One has to be a little bit careful though - I've read that ASDers are usually kept out of drug safety trials, and if that's true then one's suspicion of having ASD would logically factor into the risk assessment.

I think it can often be very hard to definitively work out whether or not to apply a particular psych label. I think it's often better to acknowledge the inherent uncertainty in these things, and that it can be dangerous to jump to hard and fast conclusions, because that's when people can end up taking unnecessary meds or refusing meds that could help them. I think that much of it is trial and error, and I prefer to focus on the traits and the symptoms, because we can be more certain about those. I can see the attraction of looking for a diagnostic label. Those things can work very well for a lot of physical ailments - e.g. with stomach pain I'd want to know if I needed an antacid or something for an ulcer, etc., but with physical ailments we know a lot about the organs concerned and things are often pretty clear-cut, while with the mind, it's more likely that nobody can really work out what it is.



I like to look at it as the diagnoses is supposed to get the person the right help they need and the right amount of support they need so the label doesn't matter, only their symptom do but the problem is when you are looking at what their symptoms are that is part of the diagnoses they have and if their symptoms are not due to autism let's say, it can still cause damage to the autism community because they work on their symptoms and find ways to overcome them and then share it with others and parents of ASD kids, that can cause damage because then people will have the wrong idea about autism and cause more problems for ASD people because people will have high expectations of them like "if Amanda did it, you can too overcome this like she did so it's possible." Then what happens when they go to their autism group, they are telling others how they can overcome their emotions and how they handle things through therapy so they can help them deal with their feelings and not let things get to them so much they dwell on it and can't get over it like if they have a misunderstanding or run into an a**hole. Most people would move on but for people who have autism or anxiety, it's very difficult for them to get over it. I can't tell the difference between the two though. I see them as both the same in that area.


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18 Jun 2016, 4:45 pm

League_Girl wrote:
ToughDiamond wrote:
League_Girl wrote:
I would call it autxiety or Asperxiety. What if they were also intentionally diagnosed with an ASD because of their anxiety due to the degree of support they need, do you think they should join autism support groups? Or do you think they are better off joining anxiety support groups despite their ASD like symptoms?

I think they might get some benefit from joining an autism support group. It would at least give them the chance to study autism in depth and find out how strongly they matched up to the ASD cluster of traits. And if anxiety was causing them enough misery, an anxiety support group might be very helpful too, so I'd say try both. An anxiety medication wouldn't care what the anxiety was due to, it would still work, so I'd say the decision there is about the risks and benefits. One has to be a little bit careful though - I've read that ASDers are usually kept out of drug safety trials, and if that's true then one's suspicion of having ASD would logically factor into the risk assessment.

I think it can often be very hard to definitively work out whether or not to apply a particular psych label. I think it's often better to acknowledge the inherent uncertainty in these things, and that it can be dangerous to jump to hard and fast conclusions, because that's when people can end up taking unnecessary meds or refusing meds that could help them. I think that much of it is trial and error, and I prefer to focus on the traits and the symptoms, because we can be more certain about those. I can see the attraction of looking for a diagnostic label. Those things can work very well for a lot of physical ailments - e.g. with stomach pain I'd want to know if I needed an antacid or something for an ulcer, etc., but with physical ailments we know a lot about the organs concerned and things are often pretty clear-cut, while with the mind, it's more likely that nobody can really work out what it is.



I like to look at it as the diagnoses is supposed to get the person the right help they need and the right amount of support they need so the label doesn't matter, only their symptom do but the problem is when you are looking at what their symptoms are that is part of the diagnoses they have and if their symptoms are not due to autism let's say, it can still cause damage to the autism community because they work on their symptoms and find ways to overcome them and then share it with others and parents of ASD kids, that can cause damage because then people will have the wrong idea about autism and cause more problems for ASD people because people will have high expectations of them like "if Amanda did it, you can too overcome this like she did so it's possible." Then what happens when they go to their autism group, they are telling others how they can overcome their emotions and how they handle things through therapy so they can help them deal with their feelings and not let things get to them so much they dwell on it and can't get over it like if they have a misunderstanding or run into an as*hole. Most people would move on but for people who have autism or anxiety, it's very difficult for them to get over it. I can't tell the difference between the two though. I see them as both the same in that area.


The fact is even if they just had autistic traits due to autism, some people would be able to overcome some things one way, others won't, so that concern for excluding people with anxiety is unfounded. Anyway, the person you describe in the initial post definitely has more going on than just anxiety, anxiety doesn't cause any of those things you listed, though autism may cause anxiety. Again, I'm going with the theory that many cases of anxiety and autism are caused by the same underlying neurological difference, it just manifests differently in some people.


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18 Jun 2016, 6:19 pm

League_Girl wrote:
I like to look at it as the diagnoses is supposed to get the person the right help they need and the right amount of support they need so the label doesn't matter, only their symptom do but the problem is when you are looking at what their symptoms are that is part of the diagnoses they have and if their symptoms are not due to autism let's say, it can still cause damage to the autism community because they work on their symptoms and find ways to overcome them and then share it with others and parents of ASD kids, that can cause damage because then people will have the wrong idea about autism and cause more problems for ASD people because people will have high expectations of them like "if Amanda did it, you can too overcome this like she did so it's possible." Then what happens when they go to their autism group, they are telling others how they can overcome their emotions and how they handle things through therapy so they can help them deal with their feelings and not let things get to them so much they dwell on it and can't get over it like if they have a misunderstanding or run into an as*hole. Most people would move on but for people who have autism or anxiety, it's very difficult for them to get over it. I can't tell the difference between the two though. I see them as both the same in that area.

Yes, a person falsely identifying as ASD could cause a lot of confusion and harm. That's why I think it's so important for people to acknowledge the uncertainty of psych labels - that way, Amanda joins the autistic group but admits that she doesn't know if she has it or not, then the real ASDers hopefully won't get undue pressure from the "if Amanda did it, so can you" argument. It's quite scary really - I myself tend to wade in with "I'm a diagnosed Aspie and I managed to do x" though I never mean it as any kind of pressure, I mean it more as "so don't automatically give up." Contrariwise, I guess if we all became too uncertain, we'd never be able to say anything. I think all we can do is to occupy the middle ground where we say we have (some degree of) evidence that we have this or that, and see all our assertions as tentative, as not really proven. It's unfortunate that some people out there jump to conclusions, and it's particularly worrying if caregivers do that and coerce their kids or whoever into entering into impossible struggles that can only demoralise and hurt them. And there are groups out there that are full of such arrogance, boldly declaring what Aspies are capable and incapable of, as if they knew. Hope that makes sense and that I didn't go too far off topic.