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Einstein autism myth

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Snowy Owl
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26 Nov 2016, 4:51 am

Feralucce wrote:
I'd like to dispel it with the fact that we cannot diagnose a dead person


why not? surely in some cases it can be pretty clear. do they really need to be sitting in a room with a specialist?
when we have records of their lives and works etc. (especially if it's thorough like someone like kurt cobain who i suspect had it) which correlate to modern diagnosed autistics, you can't just dismiss it offhand because they're not here for us to examine in person. that's just bigoted.



schopenhauer with a keyboard
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26 Nov 2016, 4:56 am

ASPartOfMe wrote:
johnnyh wrote:
Also we shouldn't diagnose historical figures either based on evil. It is wrong to say outright Atilla the Hun had autism as well.


Unfortunately, this has already done for Adolf Hitler

Quote:
Michael Fitzgerald, a professor of child and adolescent psychiatry, published a cornucopia of pathographies of outstanding historical personalities, mostly disclosing that they had Asperger syndrome, which is on the autism spectrum. In his 2004 published anthology Autism and creativity, he classified Hitler as an "autistic psychopath". Autistic psychopathy is a term that the Austrian physician Hans Asperger had coined in 1944 in order to label the clinical picture that was later named after him: Asperger syndrome, which has nothing to do with psychopathy in the sense of an antisocial personality disorder. Fitzgerald appraised many of Hitler’s publicly known traits as autistic, particularly his various obsessions, his lifeless gaze, his social awkwardness, his lack of personal friendships, and his tendency toward monologue-like speeches, which, according to Fitzgerald, resulted from an inability to have real conversations.


i can believe it.
until you offer counter-arguments i would probably put it at above 50% that he was a high-functioning autist, and i'm not going to be scared into denying it just because i don't want to be associated with him.
he makes a pretty good case to me.



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26 Nov 2016, 4:42 pm

Einstein definitely wasn't neurotypical, but it doesn't sound like he was autistic either. Whatever the case, he was an awesome guy and I still think he should be championed as a figure of neurodiversity.


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johnnyh
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26 Nov 2016, 5:59 pm

schopenhauer with a keyboard wrote:
ASPartOfMe wrote:
johnnyh wrote:
Also we shouldn't diagnose historical figures either based on evil. It is wrong to say outright Atilla the Hun had autism as well.


Unfortunately, this has already done for Adolf Hitler

Quote:
Michael Fitzgerald, a professor of child and adolescent psychiatry, published a cornucopia of pathographies of outstanding historical personalities, mostly disclosing that they had Asperger syndrome, which is on the autism spectrum. In his 2004 published anthology Autism and creativity, he classified Hitler as an "autistic psychopath". Autistic psychopathy is a term that the Austrian physician Hans Asperger had coined in 1944 in order to label the clinical picture that was later named after him: Asperger syndrome, which has nothing to do with psychopathy in the sense of an antisocial personality disorder. Fitzgerald appraised many of Hitler’s publicly known traits as autistic, particularly his various obsessions, his lifeless gaze, his social awkwardness, his lack of personal friendships, and his tendency toward monologue-like speeches, which, according to Fitzgerald, resulted from an inability to have real conversations.


i can believe it.
until you offer counter-arguments i would probably put it at above 50% that he was a high-functioning autist, and i'm not going to be scared into denying it just because i don't want to be associated with him.
he makes a pretty good case to me.


The other 50% was neuroticism. The OSS report said he was a neurotic psychopath, unlike the traditional, it is more accurate to say he had a skewed inverted form of morality instead of lacking one, and that he tries to change his environment to fit in instead of being detached from it.


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I want to apologize to the entire forum. I have been a terrible person, very harsh and critical.
I still hold many of my views, but I will tone down my anger and stop being so bigoted and judgmental. I can't possibly know how you see things and will stop thinking I know everything you all think.

-Johnnyh


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26 Nov 2016, 7:29 pm

mr_bigmouth_502 wrote:
Einstein definitely wasn't neurotypical, but it doesn't sound like he was autistic either. Whatever the case, he was an awesome guy and I still think he should be championed as a figure of neurodiversity.


Neurodiversity includes everyone! So, heck yah, Einstien counts. His life is a great way to point out that people who think differently are needed and valuable. No fake post-mortum diagnosis needed.



glider18
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26 Nov 2016, 7:35 pm

It would also be difficult to diagnose Einstein because he was a high IQ individual, and academically gifted individuals can have traits that mirror autistic traits. People can also be twice gifted (both high IQ and autistic).


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johnnyh
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27 Nov 2016, 12:49 am

glider18 wrote:
It would also be difficult to diagnose Einstein because he was a high IQ individual, and academically gifted individuals can have traits that mirror autistic traits. People can also be twice gifted (both high IQ and autistic).


I disagree autism is a gift, but I agree with the rest.


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I want to apologize to the entire forum. I have been a terrible person, very harsh and critical.
I still hold many of my views, but I will tone down my anger and stop being so bigoted and judgmental. I can't possibly know how you see things and will stop thinking I know everything you all think.

-Johnnyh


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27 Nov 2016, 12:50 am

johnnyh wrote:
I would like to dispel the notion Einstein had autism:

He displayed social abilities and cognitive empathy for one, but let us look at his brain:

-Lack of a sylvian fissure, not an autistic feature.
-Enlarged corpus callosum, autistic brains have less active or smaller corpus callousums. The most severe cases have a complete lack of it.
-Four ridges in the mid frontal lobes. Autistic people usually have 3 like regular people.
-Extensive strong connections among certain lobes with no extended length. Autistic individuals have overly long connection or poor connectivity leading to emphasis on activity in isolated regions.
-No abnormalities in the amygdala are mentioned. Autistic individuals have smaller denser neurons as a result of seizures or energy conservation. This is not a direct symptom causing feature of autism but a side effect of other differences.
-Good connection between hippocampus and rest of the brain. Autistic brains have issues with connectivity as mentioned.
-Mass was normal. Autistic individuals can have as much as 3% extra mass. The severe cases as much as 20% leading to macrocephaly among syndromic cases.

The corpus callosum size though is the smoking gun. I would like to see Temple Grandin's reply to this considering she firmly believe Einstein was on the spectrum.


Autism is not diagnosed by neurology, end of discussion. The fact you are trying to cite all these features about the neuroanatoloy of autism shows you've read a lot of popularized autism studies without understanding how the studies work at all. While those characteristics have all been found in people with autism, none of them define it at all. The actual most common neurological trait of autism is higher neuron density, which Einstein did in fact have. It should also be noted that a lack of corpus callosum is NOT autism, it's another condition (ACC) which superficially resembles autism, but has fundamental differences in behavior as well as neurology. That myth was mainly spread by Rainman, as while the character is autistic, it was modeled on a man with ACC. Finally, you seem to fundamentally misunderstand autism, as it's not a single condition, it's an umbrella term.


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