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Sanityisoverrated
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05 Jun 2005, 8:48 am

It's pretty much impossible to prove or disprove anything.



Prometheus
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05 Jun 2005, 10:35 am

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that'd be great. I haven't seen a wooly mammoth in ages!


I could post pictures of me naked and you will see ye olde wooly mammoth! :D


Yes, I am really that hairy.

Yes, this is a joke.

Quote:
It's pretty much impossible to prove or disprove anything.


maybe. . . .

But we can argue on what is more probable. I think it is highly probable that 2+2=4, and that it is highly improbable that 2+2=5.


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vetivert
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05 Jun 2005, 11:06 am

look, you only need to go into any shopping mall (shudder) on a saturday to see that we don't NEED to clone neanderthals. or even australopithecuses (australopitheci?).

i think it's incredibly probable that i shall be wandering off to get a cup of tea and a fag very shortly.



Sophist
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05 Jun 2005, 1:00 pm

Peter said:

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The neandethals may never have gone extinct, just as the dinosaurs are still with us as birds. There's a strong possiblity that homo sapiens neanderthalensis interbred with homo sapiens sapiens, and gave rise to such features as red hair in scots.


Actually, I have been reading up on paleoanthropology more of late and scientists are coming round to a different conclusion.

Quote:
GENETIC DERIVATIONS DISPUTED Through advances in DNA technology, paleoanthropologists have been able to extract genetic material from some of the Neanderthal bones and compare their genes with those of modern humans. The modern genes, Klein argues, "derive exclusively" from the African ancestors of modern humans, and not from Neanderthals.


This quote I took from: http://www.esimpletech.com/origins/news ... ews_id=168

And I think most modern paleoanthropologists no longer refer to the Neaderthals as a subset of our own species; thus they are more commonly called these days simply Homo neanderthalis.

Psychlone said:
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Doesn't the very fact fossils exist disaprove the old testament, then?


I have heard a couple Creationists claim that all of these other species in the Hominid family contain no more physical diversity amongst them than do humans today. :roll: Thus, these Hominid fossils are simply older Homo sapiens. I've also witnessed many of those same Creationists poo-pooing carbon dating and its accuracy.

Excuses, excuses, excuses. "Why do you doubt the evidence of your own eyes???"

And here's just a fun family photo album!:
http://www.dentalgain.org/man.html
(go ahead... Reminisce ;) )


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PeterMacKenzie
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05 Jun 2005, 4:22 pm

Sanityisoverrated wrote:
It's pretty much impossible to prove or disprove anything.


Thus why we have theories rather than dogma.

Sophist wrote:
Actually, I have been reading up on paleoanthropology more of late and scientists are coming round to a different conclusion.


I've not read much of late or ever devoted an abnormal (for me) amount of time to it, but last I heard, the experts were divided.

Same article wrote:
That's a highly contentious point. Other anthropologists, such as Erik Trinkaus of the University of Pennsylvania and Milford Wolpoff of the University of Michigan, contend that many modern humans carry at least some genes of Neanderthals mixed in with their own.

Three years ago, Trinkaus and a team of Portuguese scientists described the skeleton of a young boy found in a shallow grave more than 25,000 years old and said they determined from his bones that the youngster was at least part Neanderthal.

In interviews last week, both Trinkaus and Wolpoff argued that this was clear evidence that Neanderthals and modern human ancestors not only lived side by side but also mated and interbred. "The so-called modern humans are a 50-50 combination of ancestry from both peoples," Wolpoff says. "In many Europeans today, you can clearly see the physical features of a Neanderthal past.


Eventually, a tough bunch of facts will get together and rough up one or both of the theories to make space for something new (probably, but not necessarily incorporating one or both of the theories being discussed). I like the theory of neanderthal interbreeding for the rather startling implications it would have if it became widely accepted over the alternatives, but it's just one of a bunch of possibilities and a fondness for a theory doesn't make it more sound. It's a sufficiently weak theory at the moment that the next batch of evidence could fairly easily kill it, and evidence in it's favour of similar magnitude would only make it marginally more safe.

Sophist wrote:
And I think most modern paleoanthropologists no longer refer to the Neaderthals as a subset of our own species; thus they are more commonly called these days simply Homo neanderthalis.


Again, I must be out of date or mistaken. Last time I checked, the argument was still pretty hot. Do you have any links for me to see what the latest info is?


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NoMore
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05 Jun 2005, 6:46 pm

PeterMacKenzie wrote:
There's a strong possiblity that homo sapiens neanderthalensis interbred with homo sapiens sapiens


I think that everytime I see a picture of John Rhys-Davies... :lol:



Malcolm_Scipo
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06 Jun 2005, 1:14 am

What they should do:
For all who are desperate to kill, clone a couple of neanderthals and let them fight the psychopaths.

Or instead, a huge rage in the cage with Bas RUtten kicking a neanderthal.


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PeterMacKenzie
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06 Jun 2005, 2:06 am

Cindy wrote:
I think that everytime I see a picture of John Rhys-Davies... Laughing



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06 Jun 2005, 8:00 am

LOL He even looks neanderthal without make-up!



Malcolm_Scipo
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06 Jun 2005, 11:27 am

Oh well. At least he is not trying to eat you!


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pizzaboss
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06 Jun 2005, 12:33 pm

LOL



Malcolm_Scipo
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06 Jun 2005, 3:56 pm

That dwarf is annoying me.


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I WOKE UP AND THEN I REALISED,
I WAS NOT WHAT I HAD ALWAYS TRIED TO EMULATE.
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AND THEN I CRIED.


PeterMacKenzie
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06 Jun 2005, 4:14 pm

[eliza]Do you often feel this way about dwarves?[/eliza]


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Malcolm_Scipo
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07 Jun 2005, 12:59 am

No. I just get annoyed about that dwarf. He is just sitting there, and I do believe that he has a loaf of bread near which I want.


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THOUGHT IT WAS THE END.
THOUGHT IT WAS THE 4TH OF JULY.
I WOKE UP AND THEN I REALISED,
I WAS NOT WHAT I HAD ALWAYS TRIED TO EMULATE.
INSTEAD A SHADOW OF FORMER GLORY.
AND THEN I CRIED.


Sophist
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07 Jun 2005, 4:48 pm

Peter, I'll have to look around a bit more for some additional info on the whole Neanderthal controversy. There are some good articles on Neanderthals on the main site that that article is listed on:

http://www.esimpletech.com/origins/index2.asp

But I will be looking for additional info so we can ALL get a good idea what the hubbub is all about atm. Meaning, I read articles, but I'm no paleoanthropologist! LOL. So. I look some more.

Here is another good site and I will see if this site can in fact provide some info on the Neanderthal debate. But as yet, I will simply post the link:

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/evolution/library/07/

Enjoy, and I will keep searching. :D


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PeterMacKenzie
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07 Jun 2005, 5:28 pm

vetivert wrote:
what on earth is recessive gingerness? Shocked


The ginger gene is recessive, meaning it tends to be covered up by other genes such as black hair. My dad had black hair and my mum was strawberry blonde. I started off blonde as a baby, then went ginger, then gingerish brown, then some sort of dark hazel colour. Hair's a bit funny though, and I have greyish-blonde patches in my beard. My recessive gingerness also contributes to me burning in the sun (though it's handy for not getting vitamin D deficiency from sitting in front of the computer all the time).

Image


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