Is Anyone Here A Smoker

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Is Anyone Here A Smoker

I'm a chain smoker.	0%	[ 0 ]
I'm a heavy smoker.	5%	[ 3 ]
I'm a part time smoker.	12%	[ 8 ]
I used to smoke.	14%	[ 9 ]
No , I've never smoked.	25%	[ 16 ]
I want to quit smoking.	3%	[ 2 ]
I don't want to quit smoking.	3%	[ 2 ]
I don't smoke so nothing to quit	15%	[ 10 ]
Smoking is considered a stim	12%	[ 8 ]
Smoking is not considered a stim	11%	[ 7 ]

Total votes : 65

Chichikov
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03 Jul 2017, 6:00 pm

Aristophanes wrote:

replying: "it's just ridiculous." Isn't an explanation

I didn't say that was the explanation, I elaborated on my explanation. If you want to ignore that information just to make the above point then that's another straw-man argument.

Aristophanes wrote:

Again, that's not an argument, that's an opinion

You really want to pin your entire argument on the fact that smokers are not addicted? Really?

Aristophanes wrote:

Chichikov wrote:

SaveFerris wrote:

Where have I blamed anything bad on ASD?

Suggesting that smoking is a stim is pretty much that.

The OP never claimed it was, the OP merely asked others if it was a stim for them.

That doesn't even make sense! I never said the OP said it was, even in the bit *you quoted* I don't say that. Straw-man argument.

Maybe it's best you let the OP fight his own battles.

SaveFerris
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03 Jul 2017, 6:20 pm

OK.

This is a PSA , don't start smoking kids , smoking kills.

@Chichikov I don't think we're getting anywhere here , we'll have to agree to disagree on your points as your not going to change my mind with anything you've said so far and vice-versa.

@Aristophanes thanks for redirecting the focus but I don't want anyone else being on the end of Chichikov's passion.

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Chichikov
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03 Jul 2017, 6:29 pm

SaveFerris wrote:

@Chichikov I don't think we're getting anywhere here , we'll have to agree to disagree on your points as your not going to change my mind with anything you've said so far and vice-versa.

I guess so. I have to get off anyway, I have a movie to watch; "Trainspotting". It's about a bunch of autists and their stimming. You should check it out, worth a watch.

Aristophanes
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03 Jul 2017, 6:41 pm

Chichikov wrote:

Aristophanes wrote:

replying: "it's just ridiculous." Isn't an explanation

I didn't say that was the explanation, I elaborated on my explanation. If you want to ignore that information just to make the above point then that's another straw-man argument.

No you didn't, you merely screamed "wrong" or the equivalent on every point. That's not an argument, that's a child whining. If you have evidence post it.

Chichikov wrote:

Aristophanes wrote:

Again, that's not an argument, that's an opinion

You really want to pin your entire argument on the fact that smokers are not addicted? Really?

I never claimed all were, I'm saying I have seen first hand people smoke a cigarette and not smoke for literally months or years in between. Sorry, but that's not addiction, not even close. It's true the vast majority of people that smoke are addicted to nicotine, but not all, there are 'casual smokers'.

Chichikov wrote:

Aristophanes wrote:

Chichikov wrote:

SaveFerris wrote:

Where have I blamed anything bad on ASD?

Suggesting that smoking is a stim is pretty much that.

The OP never claimed it was, the OP merely asked others if it was a stim for them.

That doesn't even make sense! I never said the OP said it was, even in the bit *you quoted* I don't say that. Straw-man argument.

You said "suggesting", which the OP never even came close to doing: asking a question is completely different than suggesting an answer/solution/what-have-you. Also, on that quote, do you even know what 'stimming' is? It's a repeated behavior to ease tension generally brought on by sensory overload. Smoking can certainly fit into that criteria, as could drinking, or a whole host of other substance abuses, hence the reason they're a common co-morbid of autism. Just because you don't like the habit doesn't mean that it doesn't fit the criteria for being a stim.

Chichikov wrote:

Maybe it's best you let the OP fight his own battles.

Then go into a private discussion with the OP, you post it in public and I have every right to respond, since this has nothing to do with the OP but the fallacies you're trying to inject into the conversation.

boofle
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03 Jul 2017, 6:45 pm

if i've understood my reading correctly (feel free to correct me pls) then "stimming" can be almost involuntary. it's a "need". it helps alleviate stress etc and is ritualised behaviour. it can be made up of actions and/or words n phrases. it is not done from "choice" but from necessity.
at worst, some stims may be embarrassing (if done in public as an example) ...and it's considered anti-social behaviour according to the societal n cultural norms based upon location etc.

smoking on the other hand, starts from "choice". i think that is crucial (and critical) that attention is drawn to this difference between stimming (which is an innate need) versus smoking (which begins as a choice)
stimming causes no physical harm to health is my understanding. smoking absolutely does, for most.

also, smoking only becomes "ritual" after the "habit and addiction" has taken hold and this i feel, is why chichikov is calling it dangerous, for to suggest smoking as a stim would then suggest it is acceptable to smoke and call it a stim, ergo being helpless to stop. nicotine is cited as being in the top 5 most addictive drugs in the world, so unwise indeed to suggest smoking as stimming, maybe?

by and large, and to my knowledge, stimming does not have a physiological impact. i do not dispute that both smoking and stimming have a psychological impact but, as far as i am aware, stimming does not have a physiological impact.

if my reasoning is accurate, then indeed, even suggesting smoking as a stim could indeed be deemed "dangerous" ...especially where there may be readers that are impressionable, for wont of a better way of expressing myself...certainly that is what i took away from reading chichikov's post.

for ref.

http://www.independent.co.uk/life-style ... 24746.html

and now, let the wee'ing contest commence :lol:

Chichikov
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03 Jul 2017, 6:50 pm

Aristophanes wrote:

No you didn't, you merely screamed "wrong" or the equivalent on every point. That's not an argument, that's a child whining. If you have evidence post it.

Poisoning the well.

Aristophanes wrote:

I never claimed all were, I'm saying I have seen first hand people smoke a cigarette and not smoke for literally months or years in between.

Proof by example, moving the goalposts.

Aristophanes wrote:

You said "suggesting"

I said he suggested it could be. You omitted an important part of what I said, straw-man argument.

Aristophanes wrote:

you post it in public and I have every right to respond

It's for your benefit I'm doing this, you're not winning this thread. Now if you have actual arguments about things I actually said I'm more than willing to listen. If all you have are fallacious arguments then I'm not interested.

SaveFerris
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03 Jul 2017, 6:50 pm

Claradoon wrote:

I haven't smoked in 15 years but I still 'smoke' my pen if I'm nervous. That could be a stim.

That's interesting as after 15 years your clearly not acting as if your craving nicotine as that is supposed to leave your system after a couple of months which is why I asked if it is considered a stim - as I see the action of smoking as a repetition of physical movements and an object to gain a stimulatory input.

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Aristophanes
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03 Jul 2017, 6:59 pm

boofle wrote:

Again, just because something is harmful does not mean that it cannot be a stim. I'm not looking at this through a moral viewpoint, I'm looking at it through a clinical viewpoint and I'll explain why: If a person is autistic and they're using cigarettes as a stim, then they are most likely going to be unsuccessful if they attempt to quit, more so than the population at large, because it's not just the nicotine addiction they're trying to beat but the stimming as well (which as far as I know is impossible). Now, if the autistic person realizes they're using cigarettes as a stim they will be much more successful because they'll know they need to transition to some other kind of stim before/while transitioning off of cigarettes. Treating both problems as a singular one is the best way to fail at solving both.

One other point I would make is that while stimming is natural for autistics what they use to stim doesn't necessarily need to be 'natural'. The new craze, fidget toys, is an example this.

Aristophanes
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03 Jul 2017, 7:04 pm

Chichikov, all I'm going to say is this: read up on what a straw man argument is, because you're completely misusing it. A straw man is where someone makes a complete argument no one is actually arguing and applies it to a person in the debate, using said person's quotes is not a straw-man, it's just that: quoting the last thing they said.

Chichikov
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03 Jul 2017, 7:22 pm

Aristophanes wrote:

I said he suggested it, you argued that I said he claimed it. You are fighting against an argument I never made.

I see you are now trying to drag this argument away from the original argument onto an argument about what a straw-man argument is. Red herring fallacy.

Aristophanes
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03 Jul 2017, 7:27 pm

Chichikov wrote:

Aristophanes wrote:

No I'm disengaging from the argument because you're merely repeating key words out of your high school rhetoric book without any inkling of what the terms mean. Have a good day.

Chichikov
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03 Jul 2017, 7:31 pm

Next time don't bring a knife to a gun fight

SaveFerris
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03 Jul 2017, 7:32 pm

boofle wrote:

smoking on the other hand, starts from "choice". i think that is crucial (and critical) that attention is drawn to this difference between stimming (which is an innate need) versus smoking (which begins as a choice)
stimming causes no physical harm to health is my understanding. smoking absolutely does, for most.

I should of made it clear in my OP about the morality of smoking but thought it was a given.

I don't claim to know anything about how stims come about so only have logic to go on ( which is not a great idea when it comes to neurology ).

Let's take 'playing with your hair' as an example of stimming. Are you born with an innate need to play with your hair and it will happen regardless or after playing with your hair once you discover something soothing[/quote]

boofle wrote:

by and large, and to my knowledge, stimming does not have a physiological impact. i do not dispute that both smoking and stimming have a psychological impact but, as far as i am aware, stimming does not have a physiological impact.

I don't see how stimming cannot have a physiological impact

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kraftiekortie
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03 Jul 2017, 7:37 pm

I'm not against smoking "morally." I'm against it purely for health reasons.

Aristophanes
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03 Jul 2017, 7:42 pm

Chichikov wrote:

Next time don't bring a knife to a gun fight

Great: trite colloquialisms go hand and hand with lack of evidence, skill, and ability. You'll have to look up colloquialism (hint: ctrl +c to copy and ctrl +v to paste, since I'm sure your spelling skills are on par with your rhetorical ability).

Chichikov
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03 Jul 2017, 7:48 pm

Aristophanes wrote:

Chichikov wrote:

Next time don't bring a knife to a gun fight

Ad hominem fallacy.

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