How Do You Handle Being Challenged | Backed Into A Corner
I would like to think that there is a way to change this about myself, so, I am wondering if anyone else has had the same experience, and has managed to turn this around for themselves, and, how you've gone about it.
Thanks in advance !
I also suffer from this phenomenon too that many Autistics like us seem to have known as hyper-empathy. It's extremely disorientating and confusing to say the least and I feel your pain.
For me it's almost like I'm completely locked up with my thoughts and my speech and I essentially just stand there frozen. I think this happens to me because the conversation or argument sometimes gets too intense and I just want the experience to be over so I try to look for the shortest route to getting along with that person. If that means agreeing with their point and forgetting my own, then so be it.
I will usually stim for hours after this and become quite angry about it because I didn't have more backbone.
In my old age I have simply chosen to become more pragmatic about any issue or situation and as all good pragmatists do, we seek to compromise more than argue.
But as the Achilles heel for all Autistics is, emotional control will always be out of our reach so I think we're just afraid of the situation getting out of control.
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*** High Functioning Autism - Asperger's Syndrome ***
ADHD, OCD, and PTSD.
Keep calm and stim away.

I would like to think that there is a way to change this about myself, so, I am wondering if anyone else has had the same experience, and has managed to turn this around for themselves, and, how you've gone about it.
Thanks in advance !
What do you mean exactly? Why should you be backed into a corner? If you're in a corner - if I understand what you mean correctly - it means that someone has provided enough of a counter argument that your view on the matter becomes impossible to defend. In such a case, it seems to me, a re-evaluation of your opinion is in order. Nothing wrong with that, if someone else has discussed the topic well enough for you to be convinced.
But I think that's the difference though - discussion, or argument.
In an argument, often people are intensely emotionally attached to their opinions, and identify with those opinions, so anyone disagreeing with that opinion is regarded as attacking them, personally, rather than the idea.
I have had a huge amount of trouble with this.
I like to discuss ideas - just ideas - on their own. Whether me and the other person agree or not is irrelevant. I am capable of challenging that person's view, opinion, ethical standpoint or philosophy, without intending to impugn them at all. Just because I disagree doesn't mean I "hate" them, or feel anything whatsoever about them necessarily.
By discussing, and in some ways challenging, their ideas, I am not trying to be "mean." I'm just discussing a topic.
Not many people understand this. Their ego is too wrapped up in their identification with the idea, and when I continue to discuss the finer points, people become defensive - and probably feel the way you do, as if they're backed into a corner because I have deconstructed their argument. They are unable to stop, consider the soundness of the challenge, query whatever points in the other perspective that disagree with their own, and reassess whether or not their own conviction is correct.
It's not meant to be offensive.
Could that apply to your situation? Maybe you need to be firm in your own convictions enough to put them out there, and if you still believe them to be correct when challenged, then stick by that. If it's correct, why should you be cowed? If it's found to be incorrect by challenge, re-assess. The ability to re-assess and really listen to the other person's opinion may be defusing enough in itself.
Is that anywhere near what you mean or am I way off?
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Alexithymia - 147 points.
Low-Verbal.
I don’t feel “aggression” usually works—unless someone is literally being physically aggressive/pushy with you.
I know I don’t respond to it. I don’t, then, consider the other person’s side of things. As a result, things go downhill fast.
I’m wondering if some posters associate “assertiveness” with “aggression.” Being assertive in situations seems like aggressive to some people, Ive noticed. But they are not the same thing, I’ve learned.
Assertiveness means you express your opinions and your right to be respected in a quiet, virtuous manner without raising your voice.
The other person might interpret any difference of opinion as aggressiveness. Don’t fall into that trap. Stand your ground. Seek to express your thoughts calmly, without raising your voice. Some people might get irritated by this—but, eventually, should you be persistent, you will be respected.
Showing aggression does not yield respect in most situations—unless you’re in prison.
I mean a determination not to be steam rollered, and sometimes a determination to "fight back" verbally. I suppose kraftiekortie is correct, and what I really mean is to be assertive, but to me it feels quite aggressive inside, even though I am not being aggressive on the outside at all. I need to be angry enough to maintain my grasp on the research I have done, to insist on maintaining my perspective, instead of letting the other person's emotions wash everything away from me.
kraftiekortie is also correct that some people see calm, rational argument as aggressive, especially people who like to "win" arguments through bluster and sheer force of will, but don't actually know much about the subject. I usually ignore people like that, but if it's someone you'll be dealing with again or deal with regularly, that isn't always the best approach, because they will take advantage of that perceived weakness. And for your own sake, personal boundaries should not be something you can be argued out of.
This was my line of reasoning when I was wondering if Britte meant it literally. If I'm backed into a corner intellectually, then I promptly lose interest in the discussion, tell them they've given me something to think about and that I would like to research further, and disengage. But I didn't get the impression Britte was saying she felt intellectually cornered, so I asked.
xatrix26's description of "locking up" happens to me when the other person has "cornered" me emotionally, and I feel like they are battering me with anger or some other intense emotion. Even if they're making reasonable and rational arguments, which I enjoy, if they get strongly emotionally involved, I can struggle a bit to maintain focus. That's when I have to hang onto my anger in order to respond. Some of my closest friends and I used to argue all the time when we are living in different places and writing or e-mailing, but we rarely argued in person for that reason (some of them, I suspect, respond to emotional intensity just as I do; the others just honored my preferences).
I've only had an opportunity to skim over your responses on this page, and I'll return, later to give my full attention, but, for now, I can offer that the state I am left in, by being challenged could make some of your (generous) suggestions difficult to merely, contemplate, while in the state of mind that I experience, which xatrix26 describes, perfectly, and, of which I have quoted, below, however, perhaps there is a way to condition my mind, to respond differently/consciously. I look forward to returning to read through your posts. Thank you for sharing your thoughts and suggestions with me.
For me it's almost like I'm completely locked up with my thoughts and my speech and I essentially just stand there frozen. I think this happens to me because the conversation or argument sometimes gets too intense and I just want the experience to be over so I try to look for the shortest route to getting along with that person. If that means agreeing with their point and forgetting my own, then so be it.
I will usually stim for hours after this and become quite angry about it because I didn't have more backbone.
In my old age I have simply chosen to become more pragmatic about any issue or situation and as all good pragmatists do, we seek to compromise more than argue.
But as the Achilles heel for all Autistics is, emotional control will always be out of our reach so I think we're just afraid of the situation getting out of control.
For me it's almost like I'm completely locked up with my thoughts and my speech and I essentially just stand there frozen. I think this happens to me because the conversation or argument sometimes gets too intense and I just want the experience to be over so I try to look for the shortest route to getting along with that person. If that means agreeing with their point and forgetting my own, then so be it.
I will usually stim for hours after this and become quite angry about it because I didn't have more backbone.
In my old age I have simply chosen to become more pragmatic about any issue or situation and as all good pragmatists do, we seek to compromise more than argue.
But as the Achilles heel for all Autistics is, emotional control will always be out of our reach so I think we're just afraid of the situation getting out of control.
As difficult as this commonality is and as painful as the emotional reaction is as well, I am glad that we have this in common, Britte. Because it would make us both feel less like freaks and more like Autistic persons with a shared experience.
I'm not sure if there's a way to combat this problem for me and you. I have simply chosen to avoid being in groups of more than one or two people to help manage this problem. And in most cases, I would do the typical Autistic thing and "bolt" if a crowd around me becomes too large. That is my best guess at managing this.
This may be a childish way to deal with this but as an ASDer I have always felt like a child and I've come to accept that childish behavioral characteristic so that's what I do.
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*** High Functioning Autism - Asperger's Syndrome ***
ADHD, OCD, and PTSD.
Keep calm and stim away.

This feeling is quite disorientating isn't it? I have simply chosen to deal with it by avoiding groups of people more than one or two which usually involves NTs of course... Stimming is essential afterward.
The problem that I usually face is that when people pick up on my reactions of avoiding large groups, they'll usually try and find a way to take advantage of this to corner me again. And then take advantage of me some other way and then my secret is out that I'm mentally handicapped or something.
Workplace situations are of particular difficulty here as I've been fired 9 times and I've quit more than 30 jobs to avoid getting fired because of this very thing.
Damned if I do and damned if I don't. I'm still trying to resolve this problem. At 42 years old it still eludes me. This thing has been the source of my many meltdowns.
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*** High Functioning Autism - Asperger's Syndrome ***
ADHD, OCD, and PTSD.
Keep calm and stim away.

Last time I can remember getting fazed like the OP and stumbling onto a solution was a situation at work. There was this supervisor with poor interpersonal skills (according to most folks who had met her, she was a first-order jerk) who had arranged for me to go and help her, I arrived at the agreed time but she reckoned I should have known to turn up earlier, or something daft like that. I replied that I wasn't used to that kind of work and so couldn't have known. Another bigwig who had a vested interest in getting the work done was there, and he waded in with "well you're very lucky then, because most people of your grade have to do this kind of work all the time." Being rather taken by surprise, I felt stunned, and said nothing. Then the female supervisor piled on the pressure by levelling an accusation at me about some other unrelated duty she reckoned I'd previously failed to perform for the department - it was a complicated matter, but once again it boiled down to tacit expectations that hadn't been made clear, and this was the first I'd heard of it. The tone of their voices was clearly hostile, though they weren't exactly yelling at me.
There wasn't time for me to think, or I'd have calmly and logically rebuffed the accusations, but what actually happened was that I found myself saying to her, in a tone that matched or slightly exceeded hers, "Don't start!" I felt I'd left myself wide open to a damaging counter-attack for hitting back without giving any rational argument, but what happened was that it shut her up. There was an embarrassed silence, and the male bigwig then said to both of us, "look, I think the only important thing here is to get the work done now we're all here to do it." I agreed and we got to work. She calmed down and nothing more was ever said between us about the affray. It took me some time to piece together what might have been going on, but my main feeling was that their hostility had been over the top and that neither of them had any business being in a supervisory role, and that if they started on me again I'd best be ready to defend myself again. I was also impressed with the way my emotional, unconscious self had neutralised the problem for me, quite independently from all my thoughts. She'd made me angry and I'd put her in her place at a stroke. When I was younger I'd often hit back too hard, without experience or much reason, and get nailed for it, sometimes rightly so. And I'd often give too much ground in a transparent attempt to appease the enemy.
There wasn't time for me to think, or I'd have calmly and logically rebuffed the accusations, but what actually happened was that I found myself saying to her, in a tone that matched or slightly exceeded hers, "Don't start!" I felt I'd left myself wide open to a damaging counter-attack for hitting back without giving any rational argument, but what happened was that it shut her up. There was an embarrassed silence, and the male bigwig then said to both of us, "look, I think the only important thing here is to get the work done now we're all here to do it." I agreed and we got to work. She calmed down and nothing more was ever said between us about the affray. It took me some time to piece together what might have been going on, but my main feeling was that their hostility had been over the top and that neither of them had any business being in a supervisory role, and that if they started on me again I'd best be ready to defend myself again. I was also impressed with the way my emotional, unconscious self had neutralised the problem for me, quite independently from all my thoughts. She'd made me angry and I'd put her in her place at a stroke. When I was younger I'd often hit back too hard, without experience or much reason, and get nailed for it, sometimes rightly so. And I'd often give too much ground in a transparent attempt to appease the enemy.
I think your reaction was perfect, and the reason for this is that they were basically attacking you for reasons that were perfectly emotional and had nothing to do with logic.
You can't fight emotion with logic when people have gotten worked up, they will only interpret it as excuses. Just pushing back a little without saying something nasty is the best option, I think.
About aggressiveness: I don't yell at people or say nasty things - I am very formal and correct when I push back, or I may joke in a pointed manner. But it's fuelled by inner aggression. The emotion helps me push back.
I believe aggression is different for men and women because of gender roles. Women will simply have to be more assertive, and risk being labelled bitchy, because there are so many people who think they have the right to be rude to us. Men won't experience so much of this behaviour from women, although they get a lot of it from other men, so guys need to hold back on the testosterone a bit when dealing with women.
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I sometimes leave conversations and return after a long time. I am sorry about it, but I need a lot of time to think about it when I am not sure how I feel.
Thanks.....it did seem to do the job. My own view is that they were indeed being unreasonable, but not exactly purely emotional and irrational, more like a cold-hearted attempt to emaciate me.
Certainly it can be a mistake for the victim to keep the subject matter of the argument centred on themselves, and there's a lot to be said for using minimum force to push back, because if the problem escalates, it might get handed on to somebody with more power than the people involved in the original affray, and the victim could be made out to be the villain of the piece if they'd "gone for the jugular." When I'm feeling reasonably confident I like to shift the subject onto the conduct of the aggressor, in a measured way.
Yes I think that happens. I once read that aggression is commonly misunderstood to be an entirely negative thing, when in reality aggression is much broader than that, and is an essential ingredient for the solving of any problem. I rather like Mr. Spock's measured response to somebody who was ripping on him - "your attitude to me is becoming increasingly hostile."
Some truth in that I think. I probably have the most trouble with "gender-binary" men and women when a conflict happens - such women seem to resort to passive aggression too readily instead of just saying what they're unhappy about, which is hard to deal with, while the men get too aggressive, which is just as difficult.
Thanks for all that’s been shard/ the food for thought, and words of wisdom. It’s been helpful to read of your experiences and solutions.
*xatrix26, like you and ToughDiamond, this happens while interacting with certain people I work with. It had been a work-related incident that prompted me to generate my post. It isn’t exclusive to my work environment, however. I have made enemies, simply by holding firm to my boundaries, however, I don’t have to communicate verbally, to hold fast to my boundaries. The people who attempt to cross my boundaries, or who simply get enraged by the fact that I have boundaries, tend to also cause me to freeze up in conversation. Thankfully, it isn’t often that I must converse with them.
*C2V - I don’t find there to be a defensiveness component to my reaction. It’s somewhat the opposite. It’s as if my mind is too playable/accepting, or open to other’s views/perspectives in that moment. I seem to, immediately, consider the other person as correct, or their statements/perceptions overtake my own thoughts/perceptions, and I become somewhat paralyzed, and all information that had been stored in my mind, and my ability to speak, becomes null and void.
Thank you, again, for the input, shared.