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Ichinin
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09 Jan 2018, 2:51 pm

nca14 wrote:
I am not so good in visualising in mind, especially more complex or 3D things. I think rather in words.

I suppose that in Northern America I would be diagnosed with NVLD instead of AS(D). My VIQ was 126 and PIQ was 104.


And some of us are the exact opposites and cant even begin to fathom how one would think in words, when what is going on in our minds is like watching memories in a built in version of Netflix in your brain.


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strings
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09 Jan 2018, 11:22 pm

The Musings Of The Lost wrote:
strings wrote:
Depends what you mean by visualising. As I discovered fairly recently, I have aphantasia, which means I don't see any "mental imagery" at all. I never realised that anyone else did; I always assumed they were speaking figuratively. But if you mean visualisation in a more generic and abstract sense then yes I do; mostly in an abstract way, like in my work, which is based on mathematics and equations.

Oh my god. I think I may have this. I am doing some research now but so far I think I do


Welcome to the club! There's a quiz about aphantasia in the article at http://www.bbc.com/news/health-34039054. Actually, if one has aphantasia and is discovering it for the first time, I think the quiz is not very satisfactory because one has no idea what to compare against, when being asked questions about how vividly one is seeing images in one's mind. In my case, it still took a while for me to realise that when people speak of "seeing images in the mind," they really do mean seeing images in the mind. I have never, in my life, seen an image in my mind (except in dreams), and so I assumed that people were just using flowery language and huge exaggeration to describe the same minimal things I experience, i.e. some vague, almost subconscious, knowledge of roughly what familiar things look like, but no images. I am still fascinated by the fact that I have seemingly spent the last six decades not realising that anyone else had different mental visualisation abilities to my own essentially non-existent capabilities.



The Musings Of The Lost
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10 Jan 2018, 3:53 am

strings wrote:
The Musings Of The Lost wrote:
strings wrote:
Depends what you mean by visualising. As I discovered fairly recently, I have aphantasia, which means I don't see any "mental imagery" at all. I never realised that anyone else did; I always assumed they were speaking figuratively. But if you mean visualisation in a more generic and abstract sense then yes I do; mostly in an abstract way, like in my work, which is based on mathematics and equations.

Oh my god. I think I may have this. I am doing some research now but so far I think I do


Welcome to the club! There's a quiz about aphantasia in the article at http://www.bbc.com/news/health-34039054. Actually, if one has aphantasia and is discovering it for the first time, I think the quiz is not very satisfactory because one has no idea what to compare against, when being asked questions about how vividly one is seeing images in one's mind. In my case, it still took a while for me to realise that when people speak of "seeing images in the mind," they really do mean seeing images in the mind. I have never, in my life, seen an image in my mind (except in dreams), and so I assumed that people were just using flowery language and huge exaggeration to describe the same minimal things I experience, i.e. some vague, almost subconscious, knowledge of roughly what familiar things look like, but no images. I am still fascinated by the fact that I have seemingly spent the last six decades not realising that anyone else had different mental visualisation abilities to my own essentially non-existent capabilities.


Yeah I took that quiz while I was reading about it.
I made a thread about it now in other phsychological conditions category


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10 Jan 2018, 1:10 pm

Thanks for the link, strings!

Quote:
This score suggests that your visual imagery is less vivid than average, but you score above the range of people lacking imagery altogether, the state termed aphantasia. Around 9% of people fall in the same range as you.
Your score:
18/40


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11 Jan 2018, 3:27 pm

rebeccadanielprophet wrote:
Are you good at visualizing things? (like numbers, nature, graphs, etc)


I remember early software classes used to (I don't know if the still do) spend the first couple of units on flow charts. I never understood the reason for flow charts because when I read software code, I see a flow chart.


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11 Jan 2018, 8:55 pm

I took the test out of boredom, and got:

Quote:
Your score: 39/40

This score suggests that your visual imagery is more vivid than usual.

Scores at the upper end of this range are suggestive of "hyperphantasia": exceptionally strong powers of visualisation.

About 23% of people score in this range, the highest of our 5 bands.

If you consider your imagery to be exceptionally strong, and would like to be included in future research, you can contact the team at Exeter University through this email: [email protected]


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11 Jan 2018, 9:05 pm

strings wrote:
Welcome to the club! There's a quiz about aphantasia in the article at http://www.bbc.com/news/health-34039054. Actually, if one has aphantasia and is discovering it for the first time, I think the quiz is not very satisfactory because one has no idea what to compare against...

The first time I did that test, I didn't know what the questions meant. I thought that I could visualise things because I can imagine them and get a pretty decent description of them from that imagination, and I thought this is what everyone did when they "visualise" something.

Then I read that people with Aphantasia sometimes can sometimes involuntarily visualise things, and I can definitely recall getting something that's very much like really, visually seeing it, but always involuntarily. If I consciously try to do that, I simply can't. I can imagine it, and I can describe what I'm imagining, but I can't voluntarily get the same kind of "looking at it" like picture that I sometimes get involuntarily; I close my eyes and see blackness, but yet can describe something I'm imagining.

Based on this, I have self-diagnosed with Aphantasia, but still, having nothing concrete to compare with, I don't absolutely know that everyone doesn't do what I do, and the test doesn't really help with that.

Seems pretty much exactly as you describe, Strings, except that I do involuntarily "visualise" things occasionally.


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11 Jan 2018, 10:30 pm

This is interesting. Ive always thought in pictures- so for ex, you say ‘bird’ and i can just flip through pictures in my head of all the birds i can visualize. I also daydream a lot and i just watch things in my head, like a netflix show or video game.

I cant even imagine thinking words. Do the words just flash in your mind like a picture?


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strings
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11 Jan 2018, 10:48 pm

EightyNiner wrote:
I cant even imagine thinking words. Do the words just flash in your mind like a picture?


No. For me, my thinking is a rather pedestrian process in which I formulate a question to myself by speaking it, in my mind, at a normal speaking rate. And then I answer it, maybe pose another question, and so on; holding an internal "dialogue" with myself. I always assumed that was what everyone did, until I learned about aphantasia.



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11 Jan 2018, 10:48 pm

EightyNiner wrote:
I cant even imagine thinking words. Do the words just flash in your mind like a picture?


For me, it is like listening to snippets of a conversation at a party. The subconscious has many churning ideas that begin to be identified with a few words each, and as they are chosen to come into consciousness, more words increase the definition. How do you form a sentence?



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11 Jan 2018, 11:13 pm

EightyNiner wrote:
I cant even imagine thinking words. Do the words just flash in your mind like a picture?

I'm sure that's not how verbal thinkers do it -- but that's how I'd certainly end up imagining first, if not the auditory versions. :lol:

The close guess I have is more or less rote like, with stronger basis of logic and structure, with associations and other among things.
Even if it seem like less dimensional... There are many examples that it isn't the case.



And, the medium itself is tricker to work on. Perhaps the language's 'base' is more like a verbal thinker's 'guide' or 'ground' than a 'limitation'.


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Last edited by Edna3362 on 11 Jan 2018, 11:14 pm, edited 1 time in total.

SplendidSnail
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11 Jan 2018, 11:13 pm

strings wrote:
EightyNiner wrote:
I cant even imagine thinking words. Do the words just flash in your mind like a picture?


No. For me, my thinking is a rather pedestrian process in which I formulate a question to myself by speaking it, in my mind, at a normal speaking rate. And then I answer it, maybe pose another question, and so on; holding an internal "dialogue" with myself. I always assumed that was what everyone did, until I learned about aphantasia.

Exactly like this. I think the words, and "say" them to myself in my head. But I can't "see" pictures of letters any better than I can "see" pictures of objects.


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11 Jan 2018, 11:54 pm

I think in pictures and short videos, but it's kinda blurry. I can't draw from memory, but I can draw what I see.



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12 Jan 2018, 12:59 am

I can draw from memory, but more often draw original objects. Sometimes my first guess at the necessary proportions is off considerably. As I sketch, more details become clear to me. To build the velomobile shown in my avatar, I first drew the rider, and then the wheels, because those shapes can't be changed, and their placement is critical. Then came the machinery, and then the structure to tie it together.
I just finished making seven similar drawers, and had precision cut the panels. The little sticks to reinforce the corners were not spelled out in the plans; I just made some square stock and cut what I needed as I went. By the last drawer, I had learned how to cut all eight sticks to the right length in one session. It helped to have finished assemblies to look at.
I'm no whiz at advanced math, but a bit of mental algebra is often very time-saving, as when somebody proposes generating electricity from their downspouts. The math seems to float in my head as various quantities that have to be in balance. I know right away if a problem has a mathematical solution, and can often find it.



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12 Jan 2018, 3:20 am

The best way I can describe my mind is like this; it starts off with just audio, complemented by sheer empty space/blackness. Then, certain words or triggers spike imagery. So, let's say I was thinking about a subject and the word stallion came up in my mind. Once I have uttered the word in my head, a visual imagine of a stallion pops up often accompanied by sound and movement. The horse shakes its head, flicks its ears, and lift its front left leg up, then exhales from its muzzle and blinks.

Usually the horse is dapple and white, but sometimes brown. This changes if I happen to be talking to someone about the horse and they mention that its a different colour to how I originally pictured.

If I were to continue my thought on a stallion, then more detail would appear in the background, as if a camera was really zoomed in on the horse, and then began to zoom out to reveal the surroundings. So, if I were to start thinking about horse grooming then a person would appear with riding gear on and a horse brush, and they would start brushing the mane and I'd hear the sound of the brush on the horse's mane.

Then, if I were to start thinking about something I might smell in such a scene, perhaps it rained recently there, I would almost smell that.

Once I've finished on a visual train of thought, it usually goes back to a blank space. But I might also think about something that connects to the horse, such as the lyric "you're a f***ing horse" from the music video for the cover of "Move b***h" performed by Ellektra. Then I'd start imagining the music video, and because there's a telephone in that video, I would start thinking of telephones, which would lead to picturing and hearing "Telephone" by Lady Gaga ft. Beyonce.

Yeah, my mind moves from one thing to another quickly, and often in detail.

:lol: People sometimes struggle to follow my train of thought, because once I've explained one or two of my connections, I've already moved onto the fourth one in my mind. Then I have to go back and explain the third one and how I got to that from the second, so then they can understand the fourth and so on...


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12 Jan 2018, 4:50 pm

Lost_dragon wrote:
The best way I can describe my mind is like this; it starts off with just audio, complemented by sheer empty space/blackness. Then, certain words or triggers spike imagery. So, let's say I was thinking about a subject and the word stallion came up in my mind. Once I have uttered the word in my head, a visual imagine of a stallion pops up often accompanied by sound and movement. The horse shakes its head, flicks its ears, and lift its front left leg up, then exhales from its muzzle and blinks.

Usually the horse is dapple and white, but sometimes brown. This changes if I happen to be talking to someone about the horse and they mention that its a different colour to how I originally pictured.

If I were to continue my thought on a stallion, then more detail would appear in the background, as if a camera was really zoomed in on the horse, and then began to zoom out to reveal the surroundings. So, if I were to start thinking about horse grooming then a person would appear with riding gear on and a horse brush, and they would start brushing the mane and I'd hear the sound of the brush on the horse's mane.

Then, if I were to start thinking about something I might smell in such a scene, perhaps it rained recently there, I would almost smell that.

Once I've finished on a visual train of thought, it usually goes back to a blank space. But I might also think about something that connects to the horse, such as the lyric "you're a f***ing horse" from the music video for the cover of "Move b***h" performed by Ellektra. Then I'd start imagining the music video, and because there's a telephone in that video, I would start thinking of telephones, which would lead to picturing and hearing "Telephone" by Lady Gaga ft. Beyonce.

Yeah, my mind moves from one thing to another quickly, and often in detail.

:lol: People sometimes struggle to follow my train of thought, because once I've explained one or two of my connections, I've already moved onto the fourth one in my mind. Then I have to go back and explain the third one and how I got to that from the second, so then they can understand the fourth and so on...


That's exactly how I am, associative.

What you wrote about horses made me realize it's not just a visual movie in my head, it's also very sensory. The word muzzle makes me think of the velvety softness of their noses mixed with pointy whiskers, the smell and feeling when they puff air nose to nose, the sounds of nickering, the way they sniff the air, their irritation when I put on a bridle with a bit, the slurping sounds they make drinking water...