Hans Asperger was worse than we thought

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lostonearth35
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20 Apr 2018, 10:46 am

Most historically famous people did evil things or had beliefs that would not be acceptable by many people today. Just look at Christopher Columbus, whom the Americans have a holiday named after to honor his memory.

I like to call myself an "aspie". It like it much more than "with high-functioning autism". In fact I hate hearing the phrase "high-functioning" or "low-functioning".



ASPartOfMe
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20 Apr 2018, 11:14 am

elsapelsa wrote:
I never really expected him to be great morally or in terms of his political leanings. I love nietzsche's writing despite his failings. I respect heidegger's work despite his very, very, very grave failings.

I like the term "aspie" it is an evolution from the original "aspergers" which I have never used. But HFA is good too. I just don't like ASD because I don't like the " disorder" bit.

History is chock a block full of villains. Sometimes it is unhelpful to interlink whatever they produced, good or bad, as inseparable from their abhorrent political and moral position or character. But that is just my thoughts. When I think of my daughter as a (diagnosed ) aspie or myself as (a potential self-diagnosed) aspie, it makes me think of belonging to a group like this, sharing traits and similar stories with a group of people, it in no way makes me think of some dusty old man with a closet full of horrible leanings and rusty beliefs.

A possible alternative to ASD is ASC for Autism Spectrum Condition


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Trogluddite
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20 Apr 2018, 11:25 am

^ Yes, my diagnostic report uses ASC and the word "condition" throughout (the DSM-V/ICD-10 criteria were used for diagnosis). I don't think that's particularly "standard" yet here in the UK, but "disorder" does seem to be deprecated by most of the autism professionals that I've had contact with.


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elsapelsa
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20 Apr 2018, 11:27 am

Trogluddite wrote:
^ Yes, my diagnostic report uses ASC and the word "condition" throughout (the DSM-V/ICD-10 criteria were used for diagnosis). I don't think that's particularly "standard" yet here in the UK, but "disorder" does seem to be deprecated by most of the autism professionals that I've had contact with.


Wow, that is really interesting. My daughter had her diagnosis through the national autistic society / Lorna wing centre this spring but it still says ASD as main diagnosis and then just refers to her being an aspie throughout.


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elsapelsa
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20 Apr 2018, 11:28 am

ASPartOfMe wrote:
elsapelsa wrote:
I never really expected him to be great morally or in terms of his political leanings. I love nietzsche's writing despite his failings. I respect heidegger's work despite his very, very, very grave failings.

I like the term "aspie" it is an evolution from the original "aspergers" which I have never used. But HFA is good too. I just don't like ASD because I don't like the " disorder" bit.

History is chock a block full of villains. Sometimes it is unhelpful to interlink whatever they produced, good or bad, as inseparable from their abhorrent political and moral position or character. But that is just my thoughts. When I think of my daughter as a (diagnosed ) aspie or myself as (a potential self-diagnosed) aspie, it makes me think of belonging to a group like this, sharing traits and similar stories with a group of people, it in no way makes me think of some dusty old man with a closet full of horrible leanings and rusty beliefs.

A possible alternative to ASD is ASC for Autism Spectrum Condition


Thank you, that is a good alternative.

Lostonearth, totally see your point about high functioning and low functioning, that put me off that term too.


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CockneyRebel
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20 Apr 2018, 12:27 pm

I let one person jade me about 11 years ago. I'm not going to let a dead person make me hate Germany.


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AlanMooresBeard
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20 Apr 2018, 2:07 pm

CockneyRebel wrote:
I let one person jade me about 11 years ago. I'm not going to let a dead person make me hate Germany.


He was Austrian actually.



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20 Apr 2018, 2:26 pm

SocOfAutism wrote:
Do some digging into Bill and Melissa Gates and their work into HIV vaccines in Africa. When you receive a vaccine, you are getting a weakened version of the virus in order to let your body build immunity. Since we don’t have a working HIV vaccine yet (that we know of), these moms and babies develop HIV and die of AIDS.

I'd really like a reference regarding this. Yes, I am open to the fact that often there is a gulf between theory and practice. All the same, medical ethics are a heck of a lot better than they used to be.



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20 Apr 2018, 2:41 pm

AardvarkGoodSwimmer wrote:
SocOfAutism wrote:
Do some digging into Bill and Melissa Gates and their work into HIV vaccines in Africa. When you receive a vaccine, you are getting a weakened version of the virus in order to let your body build immunity. Since we don’t have a working HIV vaccine yet (that we know of), these moms and babies develop HIV and die of AIDS.

I'd really like a reference regarding this. Yes, I am open to the fact that often there is a gulf between theory and practice. All the same, medical ethics are a heck of a lot better than they used to be.


Are they, though? My sister is in a medical grad school, and she told us just the other day about experiments in pain being done on autistic children in another department. She doesn't jump to conclusions easily, so I trust it's as serious as she says. I really don't think the amount of evil in the world has changed, just the manner in which it manifests.


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IstominFan
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20 Apr 2018, 3:28 pm

Autism spectrum is probably the most appropriate description of the condition. "Aspie" is a little too cute and "high functioning" seems a bit too simplistic. I am high functioning in some areas and relatively inexperienced in others.



CockneyRebel
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20 Apr 2018, 5:53 pm

AlanMooresBeard wrote:
CockneyRebel wrote:
I let one person jade me about 11 years ago. I'm not going to let a dead person make me hate Germany.


He was Austrian actually.


Just like Hitler. He was also Austrian.


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The_Walrus
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20 Apr 2018, 6:09 pm

AardvarkGoodSwimmer wrote:
SocOfAutism wrote:
Do some digging into Bill and Melissa Gates and their work into HIV vaccines in Africa. When you receive a vaccine, you are getting a weakened version of the virus in order to let your body build immunity. Since we don’t have a working HIV vaccine yet (that we know of), these moms and babies develop HIV and die of AIDS.

I'd really like a reference regarding this. Yes, I am open to the fact that often there is a gulf between theory and practice. All the same, medical ethics are a heck of a lot better than they used to be.

Yeah don't worry, it's complete rubbish. The Gates foundation isn't giving people HIV vaccinations. They do donate to research into developing a vaccine, but there isn't one being given to people. You should be aware that this user has a long track record of posting unsubstantiated conspiracy theories.

(Also that's not necessarily how vaccines work but that's not important)



Benjamin the Donkey
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20 Apr 2018, 7:32 pm

It's bad for Asperger's reputation, but it's not a blow to our community. We've always known that geniuses and people who make important discoveries or contributions may be abhorrent in other ways. Because they're human. Columbus was an advocate of slavery and genocide. George Washington and Thomas Jefferson owned slaves. Heidegger was an outright Nazi. Winston Churchill was in favor of using poison gas on non-white people, but not on Europeans. Henry Ford was a racist who was admired by Hitler. Roman Polanski raped a 13-year-old girl. Bobby Fischer was an extreme anti-Semite. Picasso was an a**hole to almost everyone in his life. John Lennon physically abused both his wives. Even Gandhi had an unsavory side.


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MalchikBrodyaga
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20 Apr 2018, 9:07 pm

Funny, I am so used to the word, that I no longer think of that condition being named after him, more like he was lucky to have a last name sounding like that condition, LOL.



CockneyRebel
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21 Apr 2018, 11:50 am

....and what about that night in Cardiff, Wales when Mick Avory came to blows with Dave Davies in the early May of 1965.


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21 Apr 2018, 7:31 pm

CockneyRebel wrote:
I let one person jade me about 11 years ago. I'm not going to let a dead person make me hate Germany.


I don't hate Germany either, though I was shaken, in the 1970s, when I occasionally noticed Nazi remnants. The worst of these was a night spent at a country inn in Southern Germany. There were nightstands on both sides of our double bed, and lamps with curious lampshades on them. We also noticed a lot of framed pictures of insignia that came from the Nazi era, which were all over the place.

At first we thought no-one could possibly be as insensitive to really place lampshades made of human skin in guest rooms. However, sadly, on closer inspection in the morning we realised that this is what they were. We paid our bill without bothering to converse, collected our passports at the soonest possible time, didn't bother to have the breakfast we paid for and left. Pity that there was no "Trip Advisor" then, to warn others.

However this experience was absolutely atypical during the year I lived there. There was still a lot of shame and the war was never mentioned, NEVER. We were invited to several German homes and treated well, with generosity and good will, and (need I add) very ample food and wine.
...

So many Nazis were intentionally whitewashed after the war that it should not be so surprising to us, perhaps, that Asperger is another to be unmasked. The defence of him as a "good Catholic" that was made by some autism writers (like Frith and others) completely ignores what they must have known about Catholic collaboration with the Nazis; there was plenty of it, including the issuing of Vatican passports to assist Nazi war criminals to escape justice by travelling on the passports to hide under false names in other countries, and the Vatican assisted their safe passage as well. Deals were done during the war between the Catholic church and the Nazis, to protect Catholic properties and churches, so the pope of the time was happy to turn a very blind eye to the murder of millions of Jews and others. That we rarely read of this now is an interesting example of suppression of uncomfortable facts, when those facts challenge an authoritarian institution with vast wealth and power.