Found a website where NTs reveal absolute hatred

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B19
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27 Aug 2018, 11:33 pm

Child Of The Universe: Look at the references she appends on the end. She adds "adapted from Robert Hare".

Now, if you don't know - Robert Hare did pioneering and - in my opinion - groundbreaking work on his areas of speciality, which are: psychopathy, sociopathy (like NPD, the cluster B subsection of sociopathy. He is a very competent man.

How dare this woman carefully omit to explain that Robert Hare has never, ever, studied, written about, or claimed to have any expertise in AS.

Can you begin to see how mendacious she is in this misrepresentation?
Can you begin to see how she has twisted the narrative of psychopathy to project onto AS people to sell her books and for self promotion?
Can you begin to see that designating a whole huge class of HUMAN BEINGS as "emotional robots" is an ultimate example of the hateful practice of dehumanisation?

There are hundreds of things more I could add about her hate writing, however if you can't understand the 3 questions I have posed, nor sense what meaning they have, then perhaps you haven't experienced enough in life yet to begin to understand. We were all at that stage once, however many of us here are fairly experienced in our study of the way that dehumanisation of AS people and neurodiverse people generally works.

Robert Hare would be (I think) outraged by her misuse of his works. It is immoral and speaks to the writer's lack of character and ethics.

For those unfamiliar with and curious about his career, Wikipedia is accurate in its summary. I have read all of his works for many years:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_D._Hare



B19
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27 Aug 2018, 11:38 pm

Canadian Penguin wrote:
How so very odd.

Testimonials were interesting. Seemed to be grouped in their timings. I find their authenticity to be dubious.


You got it. The hateful self-promoters multiply themselves as supporters very typically.



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27 Aug 2018, 11:55 pm

There is a huge irony in that woman's attempt to dehumanise all AS people and it is this (as careful students of Robert Hare will know):

1. One of the hallmark behaviours and people with narcissistic and antisocial personality disorders is... dehumanising others deliberately, in a calculating way for the dehumaniser's narcissistic benefit.

2. Clinical psychologists and supremos like Robert Hare have noted that many people with these personality disorders cannot appreciate that other people have inner lives like their own. Because they are pathologically self-obsessed with their own gain, other people or groups are just props to be used for their own personal gratification.

3. It is fairly common for the narcissistic PDs to create platforms in order to recruit others who they can then attempt to manipulate into doing their bidding and providing them with what Hare and others termed "narcissistic supply".

The irony of the situation might even make Robert Hare laugh..



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28 Aug 2018, 12:24 am

Well, that was an interesting turn of events. Thanks B19, fun read.

So, she's hating on us via misusing someone else' work because she's a crazy b***h. Got it.


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Serpentine
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28 Aug 2018, 12:29 am

Oh. Apparently I am an emotionless robot who can neither comprehend metaphors nor understand humor.

Well, butter my buns and call me a biscuit. :mrgreen:

Apparently I should also be abusing my husband, emotionally manipulating him and driving him to the brink of madness. And oops, I am not supposed to love him either. I'll make sure to let him know that I'm falling down on the job and need to try harder.

What a load of hooey. I agree though... don't feed the trolls. It sounds like one bitter and ill-informed person decided to appoint herself an expert on Asperger's and HFA. I also notice that an awful lot of the "testimonials" sound nearly identical... almost as if the same person was writing them. Hmm.


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28 Aug 2018, 12:31 am

The problem with the research on this website is that it is built on pseudo-scholarship.

For example:

The website promotes itself as a resource for information on autism. But a number of the articles - namely articles which specifically discuss abuse or trauma - do not reference autism in any way.

The owner of this website has snuck those articles in among the rest, dishonestly giving the impression that they are related to autism somehow. The most blatant example of this is under the "What is Autism?" section where an article titled Word Games Abusers Play (extracted from the article Things Abusers Say and Do to Gain Power Over You) is listed.

The original article (which is linked from an unrelated website) does not discuss autism. At all. So why is it linked under a section that is supposed to explain what autism is? What does this article have to do with autism? How does it help readers to understand autism?


A second example:

I randomly clicked on another one of the articles in the "What is Autism?" section, titled Autism and School Shootings (originally from the Intech Open journal, which claims to be peer reviewed). The author (Michael Fitzgerald) of this article attempts to tie autism and psychopathy together. Reading through this article, I was wondering why the author was making easily disprovable claims and questionable leaps of logic (and even contradicts himself in one of the sections).

Looking through the pdf of his article on the Intech Open website, I noticed that his referencing was of a very poor standard, and I wondered how the hell this article even made it through peer review. After doing a little bit of digging, I realised that IntechOpen is a predatory journal. These kind of journals are a scam - they do not provide legitimate peer review (despite charging $$$ for it). They offer fraudulent scholarship. As long as you're willing to pay the fee, they will publish any kind of garbage you want.

See
https://www.researchgate.net/post/Is_In ... _publisher
https://predatoryjournals.com/publishers/


A third example:

Some of the articles on the website are authored by a person named Judith A. Morgan who apparently has a Bachelor of Education and a graduate diploma in education. To put it another way, she does not have any qualifications relevant to psychology or psychiatry.

(I am not sure if this is the same person as the website owner, named Judith Newton. The two named keep appearing together, though.)

Judith Morgan's articles are filled with statements condemning autistic persons, describing them as bullies, as "emotional robots", as having "cold and unloving behaviour, lack of compassion, lack of empathy", and so on.

A lot of her claims are not referenced. She does, however, offer this: "Adapted from the work of Robert D. Hare PhD".

Robert Hare is an expert on psychopathy. His work does not deal with autism. It is entirely inappropriate to use his work as a reference when discussing autistic behaviour.


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Last edited by liminal on 28 Aug 2018, 12:35 am, edited 1 time in total.

B19
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28 Aug 2018, 12:31 am

You're welcome GF

And if the hijacker of Robert Hare's work ever happens by here, and reads this thread, I have 2 core messages for her, too:

The antithesis of dehumanising others for your own benefit is fully outlined in the golden rule.

Please stop misappropriating and distorting work down by genuine professional researchers and writers. It is despicable behaviour.



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28 Aug 2018, 3:20 am

Olivia_H wrote:
I failed to find any "absolute hatred" there. Perhaps I missed it as it's 3AM and I have a migraine. If someone could copy a snippet of what the "absolute hatred" was, I'd be extremely grateful.

Quoting from the article:
Quote:
For people with Hfa the conscience is little more than an intellectual awareness of rules others make up – empty words. The feelings needed to give clout to these words are missing. For people with Hfa emotions are divided and unfocussed resulting in a shallow, colourless life: an emotional robot. They also have only a vague comprehension of their emotional poverty.

Many people attempt the search for inner understanding and getting in touch with their feelings. People with Hfa who search this way are doomed to failure. Their self -image is defined most by their possessions, obsessions and other visible signs of success and power than by love, insight and compassion, which are abstract and have little inherent meaning for anyone with Hfa.

Now, I've certainly read worse - but this is malicious spreading of derogatory misinformation. We do not lack a conscience. We do not lack emotions, although we may not relate to them in the same way as NTs because we have different experiences. We're no more driven by success and power and no less compassionate than NTs. There are a few later lines which attempt to connect autism with abusive behaviour.

Perhaps "absolute hatred" puts too much weight on these words, but it is hatred - far from the worst anti-autism stuff out there, but anti-autism hatred nonetheless. Imagine if "HFA" were replaced with "gay" in the above paragraphs - you'd be quite right in labelling it as homophobic.



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28 Aug 2018, 3:27 am

^^

Funny, Walrus: that quote about lack of conscience, etc., would apply to personality orders. What a confused statement. I love this bit:

Quote:
Many people attempt the search for inner understanding and getting in touch with their feelings


I think if most people actually did this we'd have a very different world.

I always marvel at how the people writing this stuff or working with folks on the spectrum never seem to realize that basically none of the language around ASD comes from actual autistic people. It's like projection as science. Two seconds of stepping back and being a little more objective might reveal something to them.



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28 Aug 2018, 4:12 pm

The_Walrus wrote:
Olivia_H wrote:
I failed to find any "absolute hatred" there. Perhaps I missed it as it's 3AM and I have a migraine. If someone could copy a snippet of what the "absolute hatred" was, I'd be extremely grateful.

Quoting from the article:
Quote:
For people with Hfa the conscience is little more than an intellectual awareness of rules others make up – empty words. The feelings needed to give clout to these words are missing. For people with Hfa emotions are divided and unfocussed resulting in a shallow, colourless life: an emotional robot. They also have only a vague comprehension of their emotional poverty.

Many people attempt the search for inner understanding and getting in touch with their feelings. People with Hfa who search this way are doomed to failure. Their self -image is defined most by their possessions, obsessions and other visible signs of success and power than by love, insight and compassion, which are abstract and have little inherent meaning for anyone with Hfa.

Now, I've certainly read worse - but this is malicious spreading of derogatory misinformation. We do not lack a conscience. We do not lack emotions, although we may not relate to them in the same way as NTs because we have different experiences. We're no more driven by success and power and no less compassionate than NTs. There are a few later lines which attempt to connect autism with abusive behaviour.

Perhaps "absolute hatred" puts too much weight on these words, but it is hatred - far from the worst anti-autism stuff out there, but anti-autism hatred nonetheless. Imagine if "HFA" were replaced with "gay" in the above paragraphs - you'd be quite right in labelling it as homophobic.


While I agree that the quote you provided was absolutely ridiculous and extremely narrowminded, I'm not sure i'd classify it as hatred. I'd just classify it as a load of bullsh*t. It's hard to tell the intent behind her words, they may well be written with malicious intent but I don't feel as though I can come to a conclusion with mere typed words alone. She is most definitely uneducated on the topic which in my opinion denotes her of the right to present her "findings" as fact.
To me, it genuinely sounds like she's talking about psychopaths, not Autistic people. She seems to have got it twisted.

Her words are harmful nonetheless.



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28 Aug 2018, 4:25 pm

HighLlama wrote:
^^

Funny, Walrus: that quote about lack of conscience, etc., would apply to personality orders. What a confused statement. I love this bit:

Quote:
Many people attempt the search for inner understanding and getting in touch with their feelings


I think if most people actually did this we'd have a very different world.



I thought most people do this and when I was seeing my therapist, he was trying to get me to understand my feelings more and be in more touch with them and he felt it was important to know my feelings behind something I do and what was the feeling than a thought I had.


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28 Aug 2018, 4:43 pm

League_Girl wrote:
HighLlama wrote:
^^

Funny, Walrus: that quote about lack of conscience, etc., would apply to personality orders. What a confused statement. I love this bit:

Quote:
Many people attempt the search for inner understanding and getting in touch with their feelings


I think if most people actually did this we'd have a very different world.



I thought most people do this and when I was seeing my therapist, he was trying to get me to understand my feelings more and be in more touch with them and he felt it was important to know my feelings behind something I do and what was the feeling than a thought I had.


I think people tend to accept some feelings in themselves, but not all. Most seem to prefer ignoring reality than to be that introspective. Just my experience dealing with people.



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29 Aug 2018, 7:28 am

domineekee wrote:
Fnord wrote:
IrisIndigo wrote:
Please contact these people and let them know how dangerous what they are doing is!! ...
No!

That's what they want -- people to oppose them on their own turf, so that they can gang up and attack. Without any victims to 'feed' their egos on, they will eventually get bored.

They are trolls.

Do not feed the trolls.

Good call


Absolutely. Since I started ignoring all malicious, ignorant, stupidity my life has improved significantly.


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29 Aug 2018, 8:01 am

Child of the Universe wrote:
ASPartOfMe wrote:
This article from the site is worse.

I would guess that wrong planet gets more hits in an hour then that site has ever gotten. Unless they become popular they represent no threat. So until there is evidence they are gaining any type of influence best to follow Fnord's advice.

I agree. It’s organizations like Autism Speaks that need to be worried about, since they are the main autism “charity” in America.


:x A charity, more like an institution which seeks funding to find the proverbial cure to autism and it's many variants


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29 Aug 2018, 8:17 am

OK, I admit I don't know one US autism charity from another. But I have heard a lot of negative comments about Autism Speaks on this site.

What's their deal? Is it just that it's a bunch of NTs speaking for people with ASD and Asperger's rather than letting us speak, or are they actively trying to eliminate the whole lot of us and turn us into good little normies?

If given proper support and coping skills, I'm not so sure that the condition is even a bad thing, though it can certainly be difficult (and I was not given proper support or coping skills). I have quite a few gifts which I'm pretty certain would not exist if my brain was rewired the "normal" way.


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29 Aug 2018, 10:11 am

Serpentine wrote:
OK, I admit I don't know one US autism charity from another. But I have heard a lot of negative comments about Autism Speaks on this site.

What's their deal? Is it just that it's a bunch of NTs speaking for people with ASD and Asperger's rather than letting us speak, or are they actively trying to eliminate the whole lot of us and turn us into good little normies?

If given proper support and coping skills, I'm not so sure that the condition is even a bad thing, though it can certainly be difficult (and I was not given proper support or coping skills). I have quite a few gifts which I'm pretty certain would not exist if my brain was rewired the "normal" way.


Several things, they spent a lot of time and money trying to find a way to prenatally diagnose us for the sake of abortion, they have supported abusive therapies, spread misinformation regarding autism, used fear tactics to get donations , sued autistic people who spoke out against them, have plagiarized many articles from autistic people and more.

They have gotten a little better, but only because they were forced.


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