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BenderRodriguez
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22 Nov 2018, 10:48 am

Arganger wrote:
I really hate it when I ask someone to do something small for me and their first reaction is, "Say please first"
I can't stand it and can't think of anything more rude than to demand a please, this happens after simply forgetting to say an over used word, and then makes me feel like they are training me like a dog.


If you're not being rude or demanding, I don't see it as necessary, especially at your age. Granted, in my culture we don't put as much emphasis on such things.

The way you describe it here it sounds to me like reinforcing their power over you, but I might be wrong. They might also just try to teach you what they think it's right, it's really hard to tell out of context.


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quite an extreme
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25 Nov 2018, 4:32 am

Arganger wrote:
I really hate it when I ask someone to do something small for me and their first reaction is, "Say please first"
I can't stand it and can't think of anything more rude than to demand a please, this happens after simply forgetting to say an over used word, and then makes me feel like they are training me like a dog.

Sorry but it's you who are really rude then. Other people are not just dogs who have to do what you command them. If you don't say please it's nothing else then that you want them just to act like a dog doing anything you want. They don't have to. Why should they like to be treated like a dog by you? The 'please' just tells that you are aware that they don't have to do it and that you are aware that the thing that you are asking for is favour that you hope them just to do because you want them to like you much enough to do it for you even if they don't have to. For this DON'T EVER FORGET TO SAY PLEASE ONCE YOU ASK EVEN FOR THE SMALLEST FAVOUR! It's just a small thing that causes them to like you more because you act less rude then. Got it now?


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quite an extreme
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25 Nov 2018, 6:01 am

The people who say "Say please first" are your parents. Only they like you much enough to give you a second chance once you had been rude and forgot it to say. Other people wouldn't do anything but hate you for being as rude as you are if you try to command them.

In German there are also additional things like 'mal' that you have to say to be less commanding.
'mal' is a short form of 'gerade mal eben' and could be translated nearly with 'just'. Sample:

"Gib mir den Hammer!" means "Give me the hammer!" is commanding without any any respect.
"Gib mir bitte den Hammer!" means "Give me the hammer please!" is commanding but shows that you respect the other. It additionally depends on how you say it wether it's still commanding or nearly not commanding.
"Gib mir mal den Hammer!" means "Give me just the hammer!" is commanding but shows that you expect it to be such a small thing that you don't even need to say 'please'.
"Gib mir mal bitte den Hammer!" means "Give me just the hammer please!" and is the really nice way because you expect it to be a small thing but neverless you say 'please' that shows that you respect the other and want him to like you.

Another common thing to be less commanding is the usage of conjunctives and asking for favours, i.e. "Could you give me the hammer please?" aso.


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25 Nov 2018, 10:02 am

quite an extreme wrote:
The people who say "Say please first" are your parents. Only they like you much enough to give you a second chance once you had been rude and forgot it to say. Other people wouldn't do anything but hate you for being as rude as you are if you try to command them.

In German there are also additional things like 'mal' that you have to say to be less commanding.
'mal' is a short form of 'gerade mal eben' and could be translated nearly with 'just'. Sample:

"Gib mir den Hammer!" means "Give me the hammer!" is commanding without any any respect.
"Gib mir bitte den Hammer!" means "Give me the hammer please!" is commanding but shows that you respect the other. It additionally depends on how you say it wether it's still commanding or nearly not commanding.
"Gib mir mal den Hammer!" means "Give me just the hammer!" is commanding but shows that you expect it to be such a small thing that you don't even need to say 'please'.
"Gib mir mal bitte den Hammer!" means "Give me just the hammer please!" and is the really nice way because you expect it to be a small thing but neverless you say 'please' that shows that you respect the other and want him to like you.

Another common thing to be less commanding is the usage of conjunctives and asking for favours, i.e. "Could you give me the hammer please?" aso.



A little outdated of thinking.
For one thing, NO ONE in my age group and about ten years above really cares anymore.


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25 Nov 2018, 10:05 am

BenderRodriguez wrote:
Arganger wrote:
I really hate it when I ask someone to do something small for me and their first reaction is, "Say please first"
I can't stand it and can't think of anything more rude than to demand a please, this happens after simply forgetting to say an over used word, and then makes me feel like they are training me like a dog.


If you're not being rude or demanding, I don't see it as necessary, especially at your age. Granted, in my culture we don't put as much emphasis on such things.

The way you describe it here it sounds to me like reinforcing their power over you, but I might be wrong. They might also just try to teach you what they think it's right, it's really hard to tell out of context.


Part of the problem is I cannot really tell either, so I just end up frustrated. Especially when I'm asking for something simple.


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Suspected; PTSD (Treated, as my counselor did notice), possible PCOS, PMDD, Learning disabilities (Sure of it, unknown what they are), possibly something wrong with immune system (Sick about as much as I'm not) Possible EDS- hyper mobility type (Will be getting tested, suggested by doctor) dysautonomia


quite an extreme
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25 Nov 2018, 10:58 am

Arganger wrote:
A little outdated of thinking.
For one thing, NO ONE in my age group and about ten years above really cares anymore.

Not my problem. It's you who is rude towards her parents and thinks that's OK and then dislikes their pissed off reaction. :mrgreen:



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25 Nov 2018, 12:18 pm

Arganger wrote:
A little outdated of thinking.
For one thing, NO ONE in my age group and about ten years above really cares anymore.


I don't know about that. I'm only a little older than you, and I consider manners, rote or otherwise, very important. I say thank you even if I prepare food for myself - I thank my parents to providing it, and I ask permission to eat after my mom makes dinner and compliment her on her cooking. Humbling yourself isn't dog-like. In fact, it tends to raise you in other people's eyes. That's not to say that I don't mess up - I struggle with empathy, and I don't always know when I should respond to people. And I'll lash out when I'm upset or in a bad mood. I don't think you should disregard the importance of manners, though, or see them as something outdated, even degrading. How we treat others will always form the basis of our characters, and manners serve as the "code" by which we communicate levels of respect. It's important to learn the nuances of that code, or else you will insult the dignity of those around you, intentionally or not.


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25 Nov 2018, 4:12 pm

Don't care about it. Manners count a lot also within society. Without having good manners you don't get a job where you ever have to do with customers and nearly any higher position within a company has. Even waitresses and hairdressers need them. For this a good position is nearly unreachable without having them and her parents are totally right to teach them.


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