Irritating questions

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Fnord
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22 Sep 2019, 1:21 pm

Dear_one wrote:

If people are judging others poorly based on their knowledge, the odds are pretty good that one party has Dunning-Kruger syndrome going on. Rational debates should be capable of resolution, or a reduction to basic assumptions.

More of a general spirit of confirmation bias cognitive dissonance coupled with class divisions...

“I believe this, that doofus from the wrong side of the tracks says otherwise, so what I believe simply must be true! A loser like him could never be right, even if he reads it from the encyclopedia.”

:roll:

(Corrected from previous post.)

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Dear_one
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22 Sep 2019, 1:47 pm

^^ That's a common mechanism, but it can't operate without basic unfounded confidence, or D-K.

Fnord
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22 Sep 2019, 4:30 pm

Dear_one wrote:

^^ That's a common mechanism, but it can't operate without basic unfounded confidence, or D-K.

Or just plain old arrogance.

Aspie1
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22 Sep 2019, 10:42 pm

Fnord wrote:

Or just plain old arrogance.

Or a power trip. When I was a kid and said something "overly" intellectual, adults, without fail, always reacted in one of the following ways: (1) Not believing me, (2) Pretending not to understand me, or (3) Laughter. The explanations are as follows.

1. Not believing me could be either actual or pretend. Either I said something that was above and beyond their IQ, or they realized how smart I was and pretended not believe me to put me back in my place. This happened most often when I repeated something I read in an encyclopedia or even in a children's magazine article.

2. Pretending not to understand me was done mostly, but not exclusively, by my therapists. That's when the person realized I knew more than I was "supposed to know". So by pretending not to understand me, they tried to gaslight me into believing I was wrong. They failed; all they achieved is giving me lifelong trust issues.

3. Laughter, I never understood. I interpreted as mockery. Specifically, mocking me as a way to show me they were more powerful than I could ever hope to be no matter how brilliant and intelligent I become.

Mona Pereth
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23 Sep 2019, 9:48 am

Aspie1 wrote:

Fnord wrote:

Or just plain old arrogance.

I remember some adults responding to me in these ways to me when I was a little kid, and I found it extremely irritating. Alas, a lot of adults seem to have the attitude that little kids exist to be cute, and for no other purpose. When talking to kids, they are preoccupied with the kid's cuteness, so anything the kid says, on whatever topic, is just more cuteness, never something to be engaged with on its own terms.

Fortunately, however, the adults who mattered most in my life, e.g. parents and teachers, did not have this attitude, but encouraged me to learn. Fortunately my parents were well-educated themselves, and for them there was no such thing as "overly" intellectual except perhaps in the religious realm.

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23 Sep 2019, 10:04 am

Aspie1 wrote:

I used to get asked that question when I was younger. Little did I know it was most often meant as a cheap shot at me. So as a kid and through high school, I used to naively cite the source, only to have people laugh at me in response, which I could never find an explanation for.

If this happened when you were a little kid, they might have just been preoccupied with you being "cute," as noted in my previous comment above. I'm a bit surprised that this extended into high school, however.

Do you feel that the adults in your life felt threatened somehow? I'm sorry to hear that you had such petty-minded parents, apparently.

Aspie1 wrote:

In college, no one asked me that question, probably because college is about learning. It returned to a slight extent after college, although laughter was replaced by quizzical looks.

When this has occurred in the adult realm: Do you think this was because they considered your specific sources to be unreliable, or for some other reason?

Were they responding to controversial opinions of yours that they disagreed with, or just random bits of relatively obscure but noncontroversial knowledge?

Also, what kinds of people were these? Did the people who treated you this way include intellectually-oriented people, or just non-intellectual, even anti-intellectual people? Were they people with strongly held opinions different from yours?

Aspie1 wrote:

Today, I give a terse one-word response: "Wikipedia". Apparently nowadays, it's somewhat acceptable to read random Wikipedia articles to pass time, among all but the most hardcore NT adults. Not as "cool" as, say, reading celebrity gossip or sports scores, but passable enough for people to simply shrug off, rather than mock you for it.

This all sounds radically different from my experience as an adult.

I would expect intellectually-oriented people to be the ones to challenge me to cite a source, especially for any controversial claims I might make.

I would expect that non-intellectuals or anti-intellectuals (the kinds of people who feel that only "celebrity gossip or sports scores" are "cool" things to read about) would just laugh at me or shun me, without bothering to inquire as to where I got the info.

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23 Sep 2019, 10:25 am

JD12345 wrote:

A question that I find immensely irritating to be asked is "How do you know that?". I have, as do probably many others on the autistic spectrum, certain special interests that I pursue, often to the point of 'obsession'. What makes it irritating is that the answer is so obvious - "I've heard and/or read about it at some stage, i.e. the same as any form of knowledge" - and also that we now live in the age of fast and heavy information, where even quite obscure subjects can be learned of via a couple of clicks or taps.

But many sources on the web are unreliable. So, in my opinion, it's important to be careful and double-check, especially on any topic that's even slightly controversial.

Furthermore, I've participated in enough online debates that I simply expect, as a matter of course, that if I make any factual claim that might be even slightly controversial, it's my responsibility to provide evidence and/or a source.

So, on whatever topic happens to be my current special interest, I don't just read up on it, but I also take notes. For example, I save to a text file the URLs of any especially interesting web pages I come across, along with some brief notes about what I found there.

(I now have a large collection of such text files pertaining to my current special interest, namely autism and the autistic community. I plan eventually to put this info on a hopefully well-organized forthcoming website.)

Fnord
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23 Sep 2019, 10:54 am

Mona Pereth wrote:

But many sources on the web are unreliable...

One sign that it is reliable occurs when a conspiracy theorist discredits it.

Snopes, the Merriam-Webster Dictionary, the Mayo Clinic, and even the Encyclopedia Brittanica have been declared "unreliable" by people who also claim things like: "Marilyn Monroe was assassinated by Donald Trump's father to keep her quiet about the Queen's plans to have Lady Diana killed after she produced Charles' children -- an heir and a spare. She was really an operative for the KGB and had learned about the Queen's plans from sleeping with Elvis and each of the Kennedy brothers."

lostonearth35
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23 Sep 2019, 11:10 am

I ask somebody what they think about something and they ask me, "what do *you* think?"

Well, since you seem incapable of thinking, I think that... :twisted:

Aspie1
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23 Sep 2019, 11:39 am

lostonearth35 wrote:

I ask somebody what they think about something and they ask me, "what do *you* think?"

Well, since you seem incapable of thinking, I think that... :twisted:

That's a great comeback to use against therapists who turn all questions back onto you.

Therapist: "You tell me. What do *you* think?"
You: "Since you just told me you're incapable of thinking, give me one reason I should keep seeing you. Especially considering that I pay you $100 an hour for your alleged skillset. I *think* you want to lose that income."

Dear_one
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23 Sep 2019, 11:53 am

lostonearth35 wrote:

I ask somebody what they think about something and they ask me, "what do *you* think?"

Well, since you seem incapable of thinking, I think that... :twisted:

That sounds like "I don't care, or have an opinion, so I'd be inclined to agree with you if you are convincing and I want to be pleasant, or disagree if I'd rather." It might also be "Is this a trick question that will change more than it seems to?"

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23 Sep 2019, 12:38 pm

Aspie1 wrote:

Fnord wrote:

Or just plain old arrogance.

I don't know for myself just how nasty the adults in your life were, so I can't and won't address the other conclusions you've reached here. However, with regard to #3, the laughter could have been an expression of pleasant surprise, downright amazement, or awkward self-consciousness, as in, "jeez, I'm really not as knowledgeable or intelligent as I'd like to think I am." It can signal comfort in someone's company--yes, perhaps authority over someone but also parity--and serve as a sign/means of inclusion and acceptance, whether deliberate or subconscious. Laughter is complicated (and contagious), but it isn't necessarily an insult. Not at all.

Mona Pereth
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23 Sep 2019, 2:53 pm

lostonearth35 wrote:

I ask somebody what they think about something and they ask me, "what do *you* think?"

Well, since you seem incapable of thinking, I think that... :twisted:

Responding to a question with "what do *you* think?" does not imply that the person is incapable of thinking. There are lots of different reasons why someone might want to know what you think before giving their own answer. And, in some circumstances, that's the most appropriate and expected response.

Example: An academic tutor. Most people learn best when they are not just given the answers, but guided through a process of thinking through the answers, via the tutor asking them questions.

Another example:

Aspie1 wrote:

lostonearth35 wrote:

I ask somebody what they think about something and they ask me, "what do *you* think?"

Well, since you seem incapable of thinking, I think that... :twisted:

But I would expect any psychotherapist worth their salt to want to know my thoughts on any given question before giving any answer of their own. Why on Earth would you expect otherwise? That, in itself, is certainly not a sign of a bad therapist.

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23 Sep 2019, 3:37 pm

Mona Pereth wrote:

I would expect a therapist to actually use their brain (or whatever stands in for it) to think and help me. As opposed to dumping all the work on me and still charging me for the priviledge.

Dear_one
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23 Sep 2019, 3:53 pm

Aspie1 wrote:

Mona Pereth wrote:

I would expect a therapist to actually use their brain (or whatever stands in for it) to think and help me. As opposed to dumping all the work on me and still charging me for the priviledge.

There just isn't enough talent to go around. The best therapist I ever had was mostly guessing, and not using logic, but her interest, etc, kept me looking for answers that made sense to both of us. I would have expected a lot more if it was costing me any amount that was hard on the budget, though.

Mona Pereth
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23 Sep 2019, 7:37 pm

Aspie1 wrote:

Mona Pereth wrote:

I would expect a therapist to actually use their brain (or whatever stands in for it) to think and help me. As opposed to dumping all the work on me and still charging me for the priviledge.

The point, at least in theory, is to help you gain more self-awareness and help you improve your own process of thinking through your own problems.

How well this works in practice depends on the quality of the therapist -- and apparently you've had some pretty bad ones, judging by what you've said in other threads.

However, if the therapist is capable of doing a good job of it, then helping the client improve one's own problem-solving ability is more helpful in the long run than giving the client a ready-made answer.

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