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Tokatekika
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27 Sep 2019, 6:32 am

Mountain Goat wrote:
Tokatekika wrote:
I do this all the time... Thinking about what the person must be thinking about how I look so I kind of end up copying how the person I'm talking to acts and what they talk about to avoid being "annoying" or looking odd... As long as I can remember tho I get comfortable with one or a few people but as soon as someone else enters in I get worried and confused as its a whole new person to figure out how to act around....


Yes. And even thinking about thinking how the other person must be thinking adds another third thinking dimention to things. I stop myself and think "What am I doing!" Haha!


Haha yes! Before you know it you're just sat there spaced out wondering if you're acting right and not realising you've spaced out and the person you're with is probably staring at you like... Uhmmm :lol:


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Sahn
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27 Sep 2019, 6:57 am

Ashariel wrote:
I'm curious about other people's experiences with social masking, and perception of Self.

Do you relate to the notion of being a 'chameleon', and trying to blend in as best you can? Do you have a sense of your 'true self' vs. 'false self' (a role that you play to satisfy other people's expectations?)

Do you relate to your 'real' name, or feel that your biological body is in fact 'you'? Or just a puppet that you're stuck in, with others dictating how that puppet must behave?

I find myself very confused by all this, would appreciate any insights.

A lot of NT communication seems (to me) to depend on finding common ground, then telling anecdotes. I avoid people who do that, because I don't get their anecdotes and they don't get mine. I can sometimes chat away with people who have a more random, tangential style as there are more opportunities for humour. I don't enjoy keeping up a front and would rather hang out with people who are slightly odd.



WalkerTR
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27 Sep 2019, 9:06 am

Ashariel wrote:
Thanks for the perspectives - maybe I'm not so different after all, in essentially keeping my thoughts and feelings to myself, and doing my best to follow proper social etiquette.

I think a major part of my problem is simply not being able to think quickly enough, in social settings. To process what the other person is saying, and come up with an appropriate response. I can do it on a forum, when I have a minute to think about it, but I find back-and-forth conversation overwhelming.

(Mountain Goat - I'm astonished by your memory, that's a handy talent to have!)

Yeah I'm exactly the same way. I find it frustrating when I have a conversation with someone then I'm not able to talk to them again cos I would've processed what they said and come up with good responses.



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29 Sep 2019, 10:50 am

Ashariel wrote:
(Mountain Goat - I'm astonished by your memory, that's a handy talent to have!)


I have just thought of something. I am rarely looking at peoples faces and if I am I am hardly noticing any facial features, so a large part of my memory which would have been dedicated to concentrate on this may not be being used. So it maybe that I am able to have more memory for remembering where people are sitting, getting off and on and where they are going, what colour clothes they have etc, etc. So maybe my actual memory capability is not much different, but I just use it in different ways?


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SharonB
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29 Sep 2019, 11:53 am

I am selectively unmasking. It's gone so-so. I need some scripts to follow (practice). I am one who is so very BIG and masking means suppressing myself (which I believe corresponds to my lifelong depression). My ASD-like BFF is the one who's very Detached and her masking means putting herself out there.



Eliza_Day
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30 Sep 2019, 3:48 pm

I've always been polite and well mannered, especially when I was younger. Looking back I think I was too 'good', overly deferential, agreeable and well behaved, which made me stand out in a bad way if I was around my peers. It also makes people think you are weak and they will try to take advantage of you! It was just the way I was raised; to be nice and respectable, but I always took it too far and felt like I had to be this perfectly behaved person at all times. When I became a young adult I grew increasingly frustrated and angry because I was sick of being nice all the time, especially because it didn't benefit me at all and I wasn't getting of my wants and needs met. I didn't know what to do so I turned all of my anger inwards and it made me seriously ill, mentally, and to this day I'm still dealing with the ill effects of trying (and failing) to be a perfect person.

I definitely think that what I was doing was an extreme form of social masking, but I obviously didn't know that at the time even though I always knew that I was different to other people. I think that many women, autistic or not, can fall into the 'good girl' trap because they think that it will make people like them more, but it took me longer than some people to understand that being assertive and setting boundaries doesn't make you a bad woman.

These days I tend not to mask, and sometimes a stranger (usually male) will randomly tell me off because they don't think I have the correct facial expression or I'm not responding to them in the way they'd like, but I'm not a puppet and I refuse to allow some uneducated nobody who doesn't know me, to dictate how I should and shouldn't behave.

Generally, as long as the person I'm dealing with is respectful and I don't have to think on my feet, I'm able to handle the interaction very well and it's unlikely that anyone would know that I'm Autistic, however if something unexpected arises and I don't get the reaction I anticipated, that's when things sometimes go wrong for me and I kind of malfunction! My mannerisms are calm and my facial expressions are fairly blank and neutral until that happens, then I suddenly look terrified, which makes me seem weird. It's really annoying because up until that point I seem normal. I must say that since I've been on a beta blocker for my hyper tension, my panicked reactions to people and situations haven't been as extreme.



Irimias
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30 Sep 2019, 9:25 pm

I'm not very good at masking unless aided by social stimulants like alcohol. When others are talking i often can't think of anything to say to join in or i find it irrelevant or i don't really follow what they're saying. There is perhaps an element of anxiety at work, but also if i don't feel an affinity to the person i really can't think of much to say to them.



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30 Sep 2019, 9:27 pm

Eliza_Day wrote:
...Looking back I think I was too 'good', overly deferential, agreeable and well behaved... When I became a young adult I grew increasingly frustrated and angry... I didn't know what to do so I turned all of my anger inwards and it made me seriously ill, mentally, and to this day I'm still dealing with the ill effects of trying (and failing) to be a perfect person.


Me, me, me!! !!


Eliza_Day wrote:
but it took me longer than some people to understand that being assertive and setting boundaries doesn't make you a bad woman.

I'm just getting here...

These days I tend not to mask, and sometimes a stranger (usually male) will randomly tell me off because they don't think I have the correct facial expression or I'm not responding to them in the way they'd like, but I'm not a puppet and I refuse to allow some uneducated nobody who doesn't know me, to dictate how I should and shouldn't behave.

Eliza_Day wrote:
[when] I don't have to think on my feet, I'm able to handle the interaction very well and it's unlikely that anyone would know that I'm Autistic, however if something unexpected arises and I don't get the reaction I anticipated, that's when things sometimes go wrong for me and I kind of malfunction! My mannerisms are calm and my facial expressions are fairly blank and neutral until that happens, then I suddenly look terrified, which makes me seem weird.


Me, me, me!! ! Once near the end of an otherwise fabulous work presentation, during the question period (when I did not yet have practiced or scripted answers) I simply yelled "Help!" Thankfully, someone "casually" stepped up and did so.

Eliza_Day wrote:
I must say that since I've been on a beta blocker for my hyper tension, my panicked reactions to people and situations haven't been as extreme.

Interesting, I was only ever on SSRIs and a "cocktail" which my kidneys didn't like. I'll keep beta blockers in mind for when the conversation comes up.

Thanks for the input that was very relevant for me. Congrats on your positive life changes!! !



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02 Oct 2019, 6:08 am

I think social masking started off as a survival strategy in school and then I got so used to doing it I didn't know anything different cause it was all I knew



jimmy m
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02 Oct 2019, 12:15 pm

Eliza_Day wrote:
I've always been polite and well mannered, especially when I was younger. Looking back I think I was too 'good', overly deferential, agreeable and well behaved, which made me stand out in a bad way if I was around my peers. It also makes people think you are weak and they will try to take advantage of you! It was just the way I was raised; to be nice and respectable, but I always took it too far and felt like I had to be this perfectly behaved person at all times. When I became a young adult I grew increasingly frustrated and angry because I was sick of being nice all the time, especially because it didn't benefit me at all and I wasn't getting of my wants and needs met. I didn't know what to do so I turned all of my anger inwards and it made me seriously ill, mentally, and to this day I'm still dealing with the ill effects of trying (and failing) to be a perfect person.

I definitely think that what I was doing was an extreme form of social masking, but I obviously didn't know that at the time even though I always knew that I was different to other people. I think that many women, autistic or not, can fall into the 'good girl' trap because they think that it will make people like them more, but it took me longer than some people to understand that being assertive and setting boundaries doesn't make you a bad woman.

These days I tend not to mask, and sometimes a stranger (usually male) will randomly tell me off because they don't think I have the correct facial expression or I'm not responding to them in the way they'd like, but I'm not a puppet and I refuse to allow some uneducated nobody who doesn't know me, to dictate how I should and shouldn't behave.

Generally, as long as the person I'm dealing with is respectful and I don't have to think on my feet, I'm able to handle the interaction very well and it's unlikely that anyone would know that I'm Autistic, however if something unexpected arises and I don't get the reaction I anticipated, that's when things sometimes go wrong for me and I kind of malfunction! My mannerisms are calm and my facial expressions are fairly blank and neutral until that happens, then I suddenly look terrified, which makes me seem weird. It's really annoying because up until that point I seem normal. I must say that since I've been on a beta blocker for my hyper tension, my panicked reactions to people and situations haven't been as extreme.


Interesting way of putting things. There are different forms of masking. There is social masking where you try and mirror the actions of others to try and fit into society. This can cause a lot of stress later on in life. But there is another form of masking. I have "a heart of a child". Deep down inside me I am a child full of wonder. I am in my pleasing 5 stage of childhood development. I try to please and be overly deferential, agreeable and well behaved. But as you noted - It also makes people think you are weak and they will try to take advantage of you! So I wear a mask, but it is not a social mask but rather I mask the fact that I am still a child (even at the age of 71) and put on the mask of an adult. It is fairly easy to do and is not very stressful.

I do not try and fit into society. I do not wear a social mask. And like you have said "These days I tend not to mask, and sometimes a stranger (usually male) will randomly tell me off because they don't think I have the correct facial expression or I'm not responding to them in the way they'd like, but I'm not a puppet and I refuse to allow some uneducated nobody who doesn't know me, to dictate how I should and shouldn't behave."

There was a very old term that use to describe this approach. They were called non-conformist. These are some quotes about non-conformist:

Here's to the crazy ones. The misfits. The rebels. The troublemakers. The round pegs in the square holes. The ones who see things differently. They're not fond of rules. And they have no respect for the status quo. You can quote them, disagree with them, glorify or vilify them. About the only thing you can't do is ignore them. Because they change things. They push the human race forward. And while some may see them as the crazy ones, we see genius. Because the people who are crazy enough to think they can change the world, are the ones who do. – Rob Siltanen: Apple, "Think Different" campaign

It gives me great pleasure indeed to see the stubbornness of an incorrigible nonconformist warmly acclaimed. - Albert Einstein

Whenever you find yourself on the side of the majority, it is time to pause and reflect. - Mark Twain

Our wretched species is so made that those who walk on the well-trodden path always throw stones at those who are showing a new road. - Voltaire

Not all those who wander are lost. - J.R.R. Tolkien

You have enemies? Good. That means you've stood up for something, sometime in your life. - Winston Churchill

Do not follow where the path may lead. Go, instead, where there is no path and leave a trail. - Ralph Waldo Emerson

A "normal" person is the sort of person that might be designed by a committee. You know, "Each person puts in a pretty color and it comes out gray." - Alan Sherman

The individual has always had to struggle to keep from being overwhelmed by the tribe. If you try it, you will be lonely often, and sometimes frightened. But no price is too high to pay for the privilege of owning yourself. - Friedrich Nietzsche

The average man is a conformist, accepting miseries and disasters with the stoicism of a cow standing in the rain. - Colin Wilson

Freedom began on the day the first sheep wandered away from the herd. ― Marty Rubin


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02 Oct 2019, 12:51 pm

I seek out places where I don't have to mask.

Nobody expect someone of my talents to be normal at work.

I went to my first concert. Most of those in the audience weren't normal either. I think everyone had a great time, except for the security staff who was annoyed at all those dancing where they weren't suppose to.



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03 Oct 2019, 6:47 pm

I didn't realise how much I mask until recently which made me feel very much like a fake. How well I blend in honestly depends on how tired I am. When I've had enough sleep I can blend in so well I am very boring because I'm still worried about being bullied for being different like I was in primary school. However, when I'm tired and stressed I don't care and very quickly you can tell something is off as in general I act weird.

I only realised I was masking as now that I'm tired I have to think about my facial expression, how I hold myself etc. Plus I have become more aware of how much I think in order to get what message people are trying to convey with their body language which is surprisingly hard.

I definitely think the unfiltered me is the real me and I think others can as well as I get positive responses. As for the body thing,I go in and out of relating to it depending on how much my anxiety disorder has decided to mess with me on any given day.

Hope this helps :)



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04 Oct 2019, 3:47 am

lvpin wrote:
I didn't realise how much I mask until recently which made me feel very much like a fake. How well I blend in honestly depends on how tired I am. When I've had enough sleep I can blend in so well I am very boring because I'm still worried about being bullied for being different like I was in primary school. However, when I'm tired and stressed I don't care and very quickly you can tell something is off as in general I act weird.

I only realised I was masking as now that I'm tired I have to think about my facial expression, how I hold myself etc. Plus I have become more aware of how much I think in order to get what message people are trying to convey with their body language which is surprisingly hard.

I definitely think the unfiltered me is the real me and I think others can as well as I get positive responses. As for the body thing,I go in and out of relating to it depending on how much my anxiety disorder has decided to mess with me on any given day.

Hope this helps :)


Yes. this makes perfect sense.


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