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Is HFA really that similar to Asperger syndrome?

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naturalplastic
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23 Feb 2020, 6:40 pm

MaxE wrote:
naturalplastic wrote:
maybe aspegers is like a VW, and HFA is like a Citreon. Two cars that are outwardly similar, but very different under the hood.

As you are close to my age, I can't help thinking that what you have in mind is a VW beetle (as opposed to, say, a Tiguan) and a Citroen from 40+ years ago, but to be clear are you visualizing a 2CV or a Déesse? Did the former have an air-cooled engine like the beetle?

Yes. Beetles of the Sixties, and Citreons of Fifties or Sixties. Nothing modern. Both are kinda bubble shaped.

Another analogy might be an African hyrax with an American woodchuck.

Both look like overgrown hamsters or rats. And both look like other, and are about the same size.

But a woodchuck not only looks like a rodent it IS a rodent. Hyraxes are not only not rodents they are closer in evolution to elephants and whales than they are to the rodent family.



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23 Feb 2020, 6:45 pm

BTDT wrote:
Boxes may be useful for developing theories on the causes of autism.

"Autism" itself is a box. If boxes are useless, let's not diagnose anyone with anything or note any differences at all between people. Then no one will get any benefits.



rick42
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23 Feb 2020, 7:27 pm

naturalplastic wrote:
MaxE wrote:
naturalplastic wrote:
maybe aspegers is like a VW, and HFA is like a Citreon. Two cars that are outwardly similar, but very different under the hood.

As you are close to my age, I can't help thinking that what you have in mind is a VW beetle (as opposed to, say, a Tiguan) and a Citroen from 40+ years ago, but to be clear are you visualizing a 2CV or a Déesse? Did the former have an air-cooled engine like the beetle?

Yes. Beetles of the Sixties, and Citreons of Fifties or Sixties. Nothing modern. Both are kinda bubble shaped.

Another analogy might be an African hyrax with an American woodchuck.

Both look like overgrown hamsters or rats. And both look like other, and are about the same size.

But a woodchuck not only looks like a rodent it IS a rodent. Hyraxes are not only not rodents they are closer in evolution to elephants and whales than they are to the rodent family.


Solid comparisons.I wonder if it's possible that people with Asperger Syndrome are basically "half way" between NT people, and people with Classic Autism(LFA and HFA),meaning we are quite different from NT's,but also quite different from with people with Classic Autism(LFA and HFA),even we may share some of the same struggle as people with HFA. For a while,I have though that Asperger Syndrome is mostly similar to HFA,but don't have speech delays unlike HFA people,but perhaps maybe I was wrong.



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23 Feb 2020, 7:31 pm

I don't think the term "Aspergers" is even used now. People with the former diagnosis are now considered to be on the autism spectrum, as far as I know. The thing is that "High Functioning Autism" is no longer a diagnosis either, because there aren't formally levels.

I'm not sure what the difference is between (former) Aspergers and HFA.

When I had my diagnosis as Level 2 ASD my doctor said that I was neither Aspergerian or HFA in my test scores. She said I was "nothing like Aspergers and definitely not HFA". I don't know what the difference is with Aspergers and HFA but she made it clear they were two very separate things. The only difference I know is regarding the speech delay, as people have mentioned.


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23 Feb 2020, 7:33 pm

Aspergians might be “little professors” as children.

People with HFA as children are more artistic, less pedantic.



Last edited by kraftiekortie on 23 Feb 2020, 7:40 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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23 Feb 2020, 7:36 pm

kraftiekortie wrote:
Aspergians might be “little professors as children.”

People with HFA as children are more artistic, less pedantic.


What about the mute kids who can speak but seldom do, who are too shy to be artistic?

I was smart but not very expressive in any avenue except writing.


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23 Feb 2020, 7:38 pm

You can be mute, yet be an extraordinary artist or musician.



naturalplastic
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23 Feb 2020, 7:40 pm

rick42 wrote:
naturalplastic wrote:
MaxE wrote:
naturalplastic wrote:
maybe aspegers is like a VW, and HFA is like a Citreon. Two cars that are outwardly similar, but very different under the hood.

As you are close to my age, I can't help thinking that what you have in mind is a VW beetle (as opposed to, say, a Tiguan) and a Citroen from 40+ years ago, but to be clear are you visualizing a 2CV or a Déesse? Did the former have an air-cooled engine like the beetle?

Yes. Beetles of the Sixties, and Citreons of Fifties or Sixties. Nothing modern. Both are kinda bubble shaped.

Another analogy might be an African hyrax with an American woodchuck.

Both look like overgrown hamsters or rats. And both look like other, and are about the same size.

But a woodchuck not only looks like a rodent it IS a rodent. Hyraxes are not only not rodents they are closer in evolution to elephants and whales than they are to the rodent family.


Solid comparisons.I wonder if it's possible that people with Asperger Syndrome are basically "half way" between NT people, and people with Classic Autism(LFA and HFA),meaning we are quite different from NT's,but also quite different from with people with Classic Autism(LFA and HFA),even we may share some of the same struggle as people with HFA. For a while,I have though that Asperger Syndrome is mostly similar to HFA,but don't have speech delays unlike HFA people,but perhaps maybe I was wrong.


I was being a tiny bit tongue in cheek by dividing HFA from Aspergers. But many a truth is spoken in jest. And I do often wonder if what Hans Aspeger discovered is in fact a different animal from HFA. At eight I was totally "the little professor". Coulda shot and stuffed me and made me the textbook specimen. An HFA person might be different.Not as into verbal lecturing as me, but might have been good with tools and with fixing things (though good at drawing I am not mechanically inclined). So I do wonder if HFA and Aspies are in just outwardly similar animals that differ "under the hood".



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23 Feb 2020, 7:42 pm

kraftiekortie wrote:
You can be mute, yet be an extraordinary artist or musician.


I was quite a talented visual artist when I was about 5-7 with some of my work on display. Then it stopped developing.

My very poor nonverbal (5th percentile), and marked characteristics in Part B of the DSM (BFRB, injurious stimming, fixated interests and sensory issues) made me Level 2. I need significant support to deal with those.


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kraftiekortie
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23 Feb 2020, 7:51 pm

You have great written-verbal talents.

I’ve never gone above a primary school level in visual arts. Pretty much a stick-figure man.



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23 Feb 2020, 7:56 pm

kraftiekortie wrote:
You have great written-verbal talents.


Thank you.

Was Aspergers just about "little professors", or did it have other characteristics too (like BFRB, stimming, sensory issues)?


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kraftiekortie
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23 Feb 2020, 8:10 pm

Aspergian have these issues.....but usually less intense than those with HFA.

I recommend you read “Elijah’s Cup,” about a kid who was classically autistic when young, but Aspergian later.



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23 Feb 2020, 8:20 pm

IsabellaLinton wrote:
The thing is that "High Functioning Autism" is no longer a diagnosis either, because there aren't formally levels.

That exact phrase may not be used anymore, but the high/low functioning concept has been replaced by the Levels (in the U.S. anyways). They mean the same thing.
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When I had my diagnosis as Level 2 ASD



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23 Feb 2020, 8:21 pm

It's my understanding that levels aren't used any more, either. No levels, and no "functioning" words.

I might be wrong, though.

I think it's just "Autism" with the test scores, and types of support in the recommendations.


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23 Feb 2020, 9:02 pm

IsabellaLinton wrote:
It's my understanding that levels aren't used any more, either. No levels, and no "functioning" words.

I might be wrong, though.

I think it's just "Autism" with the test scores, and types of support in the recommendations.

Autism Severity Levels based on need for support are right there in the current diagnostic manual.

IsabellaLinton wrote:
kraftiekortie wrote:
You have great written-verbal talents.


Thank you.

Was Aspergers just about "little professors", or did it have other characteristics too (like BFRB, stimming, sensory issues)?

The notion that Hans Asperger’s patients were high functioning and Leo Kanner’s patients were low functioning is urban legend. Both had patients in different areas on the spectrum.


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Last edited by ASPartOfMe on 23 Feb 2020, 9:11 pm, edited 1 time in total.

IsabellaLinton
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23 Feb 2020, 9:10 pm

ASPartOfMe wrote:
IsabellaLinton wrote:
It's my understanding that levels aren't used any more, either. No levels, and no "functioning" words.

I might be wrong, though.

I think it's just "Autism" with the test scores, and types of support in the recommendations.

Autism Severity Levels based on need for support are right there in the current diagnostic manual.


Are there levels in the ICD10 or 11? I thought not. Again, I might be wrong.

I was given Level 2 "Moderate Autism" in 2018 but I heard that levels are being phased out.


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