Mental illness being called neurodivergence

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wow. that's when you know you are spending too much time online.

Hot take: I super don't mind if people want to call themselves "neurodivergent" because they have OCD, PTSD, bipolar disorder, ADHD, gender dysphoria, depression, or whatever else.

I mean, to some extent all people with recognizable mental health struggles or diagnoses are "othered" by those in society who don't have them. This is a shared experience which I think fits the spirit and etymology of the term. Most of the conditions I listed here (as did the OP) are no more transient than autism, although I'm not opposed to transiently suffering people seeking solidarity via identifying as neurodivergent either. As for the usefulness of highlighting the commonalities between sensory processing disorders, ADHD, and autism, I agree that this is important, but we have other language that can serve this purpose. Why does it have to be "neurodivergent" in particular that we want to take ownership over? Either way, it seems a bit more like semantics than appropriation to me.

I do think it's interesting how we define some conditions as disabilities by law, but not others though. According to every job application I've filled out in the USA, ASD and OCD are, but not ADHD. Why? What the heck? Is it because too many people have ADHD or something?

I don't see how that's relevant given that the topic isn't about people's mental illness being questioned.

Ok, SJW. No one in the thread posted anything about trans people.

Well that's obviously ridiculous, otherwise depressed people would have just as much trouble fitting in as people with ADHD and autism. Even if depression is a kind of neurodivergence, there's no way it's "just as neurodivergent" as neurodevelopmental disorders.

[/quote]People with these conditions think differently and approach situations differently.[/quote]
People who are elderly think differently and approach situations differently. People who are introverted think differently and approach situations differently than extroverted people. Thinking differently and approaching situations differently isn't enough of a criteria.


That's part of why it's ridiculous for you and that Reddit poster to claim that neurodivergence is being gatekept. Mere thoughts and words posted on the Internet can't keep people from calling themselves neurodivergent or thinking of themselves that way. Neurodivergence isn't some vital resource people are being denied. When you talk about the side you disagree with, you act like it's just a matter of opinion, but then when you talk about the side you agree with, it's all dramatics and "gatekeeping." Your bias is showing.

Great, let's use clinical error to determine what is or is not neurodivergence.

Honestly, cut the BS. You don't know what's in my mind besides what I post, and you're ignoring the points I made in the OP about why I think the way I do.

Calling a mental illness neurodivergent is questioning the mental illness, and deciding it's something else. That is the topic, you're just focusing on people who confuse emotional states and coping skills with who they are, and use the term neurodivergent.

“Neurodivergence” is an artificial word created by ND creator Judy Singer a bit like “neurocorrect”, (one I made up)

It has no basis in medical science

Schizophrenics have created their own smaller movement and I’m sure many other groups good, bad and wicked will create their own at some point using the same rationale as autism.

Basically ND states there is no right or wrong in brain wiring which is why severe autism does not exist.

So under that basis why shouldn’t someone who hears the demon voices and is happy the way he is , be given the same neurodiversity status as a non verbal child who regularly head buts the floor?

Proud SJW here so don't think you're insulting me if that's what you come back with.

Your transphobia (yes you did mention trans people don't pretend you didn't because you possibly didn't mean people who've not physically transitioned yet) aside...

Yeah as someone with (diagnosed) anxiety and (diagnosed) autism it bothers me. The thing about autism is, it's a huge part of what I am. It's an identity. It causes some good things as well as bad things. I don't want it cured.

Whereas anxiety which actually I think will always be 'with me' (taking my meds) - if I could be cured of it, I would love it. It's not me. It causes nothing positive and I developed it as a result of a neurotypical society which treats autistic people badly, I developed it as an adult.

Calling it neurodiversity means that neurodiversity can describe something entirely bad.

And yet? It's not neurotypical. I think this is why we should go onto saying autistic (and removing the stigma from that word) and allistic. Some allistic people don't have healthy minds. Some autistic people don't have healthy minds. Cure that, not the autism. Allistic people find some parts of society easier. Autistic people find other times easier. Eg right now I'd hate to be allistic, but right now or in a highly social world, I'd love rid of my mental illness.

It would be unfair of me to ask you to elaborate on what you mean by “men who think they’re women”, but given that that’s how transphobes describe trans women, and there is no such thing as men who think they are women, it’s pretty transparent what you were doing.

My experience is certainly that depression makes it harder to fit in with society than autism.

Yes, age and introversion/extroversion are both examples of neurodiversity. They are usually not pathologised though, whereas autism and depression both are.

Well, you are undeniably engaging in gatekeeping. There’s no getting away from that. Yes, you’re an ineffective and inconsequential gatekeeper, but you’re still trying to say “these people get to be part of the community and these people don’t”. That’s a form of gatekeeping, and an exclusionary one at that.


That’s both not what I said and shows a profound lack of understanding of the neurodiversity movement. It’s laughable to try to position yourself as a neurodiversity guru without understanding the neurodiversity movement’s critique of psychiatric labels. A major part of that is “psychiatric labels are socially constructed rather than objective facts of nature”. It doesn’t make sense to think of these labels apart from the way they are used - if highly trained professionals routinely mistake autism for borderline personality disorder then autism and borderline personality disorder are very similar, highly overlapping conditions.

Honestly, cut the BS. You don't know what's in my mind besides what I post, and you're ignoring the points I made in the OP about why I think the way I do.[/quote]
I read your post. It was almost entirely whining about things you don’t like.

You made three points beyond “I don’t like these people”:

- Including people with mental illnesses in the neurodiversity paradigm will not help people understand autism - so? Neurodiversity isn’t about autism, it is about neurodiversity, of which autism is a part but by no means the whole thing. You could just as easily make the same claim that including autism in neurodiversity doesn’t help dyslexic people.

- People with depression and anxiety have a chance to get better - so? If they invent an autism cure then would autistic people stop being neurodivergent? Many people with depression and anxiety do not get better.

- People with depression and anxiety have “neurotypical privilege” - firstly both “neurotypical” and consequently “neurotypical privilege” are social constructs. There is no objective, absolute definition of “neurotypical”, there are only relative, subjective, culturally-contingent definitions. People with depression and anxiety are not neurotypical by any means. There may be some things which are easier for an allistic depressed person than for an autistic non-depressed person but there will also be some things which are harder. Both conditions are spectral so it is hard to make absolute claims. Also, people with conditions like autism and ADHD and dyslexia are much more likely to have mental health difficulties. If you cured their depression then they wouldn’t magically be neurotypical.

Ultimately it comes down to whether you believe neurodiversity should just be an “autism rights” movement or whether it should be something more, an inclusive movement that challenges preconceptions about the “right” way to be.

I don't think there's anxiety cures just management.

If there was a cure, I don't know anyone who wouldn't take it.

I know PLENTY myself included autistic people who wouldn't take a cure for autism because it affects our brain structure in a way where it IS our personality etc. A 'cured' autistic person would be a completely different person. No thanks.

The way I see it, there are all kinds of brains and neurological wirings out there. You'd be hard pressed to find anyone truly 'typical', even of you could define what 'typical' is. What I mean is, in the strictest (logical) sense, the term is referring to the natural variation of neurology - and by implication, all variants should be accepted within society.

So it could be logically argued that we should take the broad approach that every mental illness, every personality disorder, every personality quirk out there comes under the umbrella term 'neurodiversity' - but to do so would render the term redundant in its intended usage.

The intended usage of the term was to enable better acceptance and inclusion of autistics and ADHDers in society - which might be completely lost if applied to all mental illness and personality disorder and so on, and thereby no longer represent a particular minority group.

Apologies for returning to a gender/sexuality analogy (please don't throw me out), but it would be like saying that everyone in society exists somewhere on a spectrum of gender and sexuality - therefore everyone should be considered LGBTQI+. Once you do that, the term loses the power to enable targeted assistance to those for whom it was originally intended.

There needs to be a different word for 'not being a bad person to people suffering from mental health conditions, trying to make the world a better place for them while helping them find a cure' and 'accepting that the world has different kinds of healthy brains and making it so we can all be mentally healthy regardless of that and we can as a society use the talents of both neurotypical and autistic people'.

Nobody is going to accept a neurodiversity movement with for eg psychopaths and suicidal people in it. Those things need cures. Autism doesn't and only the kind of hate movements like autism speaks think otherwise.

1.You make the classic mistake in thinking nobody wants curing of their autism, some do and that is their right along with research establishments helping make that happen. Just as trans people have the right to change genders.

2. Wanting to be cured of a medical condition is not “hate” neither is recognizing that like AS does by walking in between both groups

3. The thread makes a legitimate point that if ND states there is no right or wrong in brain wiring it’s only inevitable that other groups many won’t like will jump on the bandwagon

Reminds me of Trump using predatory capitalism to his advantage for years then boo hoo ing about the Chinese doing the same.

Trans people don't change gender they change sex to match gender.

Never met an adult autistic person without other issues who did. Self hate is another issue.

There is no “cure” for autism.

There is no “cure” for the common cold.

There are treatments which lead to significant improvement in both.

I don't want one. There's nothing wrong with me that curing sensory sensitivity, dyspraxia, poor eyesight and social anxiety wouldn't fix. At least no more than other people's personality flaws.

neuro- (prefix): Combining form meaning nerve, nerve tissue, the nervous system.

divergent (adj): (a) Moving or extending in different directions from a common point; (b) differing from each other or from a standard.

neurodivergent (n): Having an atypical neurological configuration.

So, in it's basic form, the word 'neurodivergent' encompasses an entire population of people who are not 'neuronormative'.  That is, people with autism, ADD/ADHD, bipolar disorder, and even schizophrenia can be lumped together under the label of 'neurodiversity', even if you cannot point to any specific spot on a brain NMR display and say, "Ah-HAH!  He's autistic!"

Whether you like it or not.