Who would you say is or isn't NT

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Two interesting articles:
https://paulcooijmans.com/asperger/aspe ... rized.html - Asperger's 1944 article summarized
https://paulcooijmans.com/asperger/stra ... erger.html - Straight talk about Asperger syndrome

I think that people with "schizoid disorder of childhood", "social subtypes of NVLD" or "social communication disorder" are not allistic even if they do not match DSM-V ASD criteria (at least when they are uninterested in "normal" life (especially in socio-emotional area) since childhood). For me these individuals have other sort(s) of developmental autistic disorder than "bookish Asperger's" (which, for me, is Kanner's autism with not so large speech delay and with quite mild disorders of functional language and without intellectual disability) and full-blown Kanner's syndrome.

I would say that there is NOT one family of developmental disorders which could be named "autistic". I think that some sorts of developmental and persistent autism are not associated with lack of intuitive theory of mind, need of sameness and predictability, echolalia, pronoun reversal, weak central coherence, sensory overloads, shutdowns, speech delay, visual thinking, prosopagnosia or "human blindness", idiosyncratic sensory processing, uninterest in pretend play... But it does not mean that person with such an autism would be automatically higher functioning than anyone who has "traditional", "typical", "bookish" autism.

For me the "purest" autism is something like "childhood-onset self-absorbtion", "pathological nonconformism syndrome" which may look rather like "childhood-onset personality disorder from cluster A (odd-eccentric)" (something like "autistic psychopathy", "autistic personality disorder") than like other way of processing sensory stimuli and information or a cognitive disorder/deficit. People with it are "by nature" uninterested in being loved emotionally (for example by parents), having friends (especially "platonic") - though some may have severe (and often unconventional, disordered) romantic-sexual drive from early age, can have tendency to be more attached to objects than to people, do not feel shame in certain situations when "normal" people obviously feel (and these autistic people may even feel good in such situations rgardless of their will, which can cause for example (uncontrollable) laughter). Such a state is even more severe than schizoid personality disorder and probably tends to have lower adaptability in adult life than schizoid PD. It is a sort "general unsuitability to world", it may be called "a disturbance of the instinct". Maybe it is even a form of childhood-onset schizophrenia (which does not go away after getting medications)?

I'd call allistic people NT or call them their disability. If it's something like my anxiety that isn't how the brain is made, I'd say 'someone with...'. If it's inherently a part of them, I'd say 'a .... person'. Like I'm an autistic person & take away my autism I'd be totally different. Take away my anxiety, I'd just be healthy and back to my old self like I was as a kid - indeed that's what I'm like when I manage it.

There's also two kinds of NT.

NT ppl I like. Happen just not to be autistic. Are likely introvert or ambivert. Are deep thinkers. Have values & stick to them. Care about everyone who is nice. My mum is like that. She's NT and she's been vegetarian since the 70s when she was 7 because she cares so much about animal rights, it's a real interest/belief deep-set in her and she doesn't mind looking 'weird' over it.

NT people I don't like. Super NTs. Feel really bad for autistic people. Extroverts. Go out drinking on Friday nights. Never think deeply. Don't have much in the way of values except 'that's normal' versus 'that's weird'. Hate weird people & 'losers'. Hate autistic people. Laugh at weirdos. Live for a laugh rather than anything serious. Lack substance.

I hate that second kind of NT person tbh.

The reason why I hate it when Aspies call all allistics NTs is because I've met a lot of diverse people in my life and their diversity didn't always mean autistic.

I have a neighbour who has severe intellectual disability (they used to call it Mental Retardation but I don't think that's PC these days). This lad is actually my age but is constantly in a wheelchair and needs 24-hour care. He literally is unable to work and the only word he can say is "hello". To some Aspies, managing to say hello to every person means socially skilled, but I've been articulate and verbal since I was 2 years old and I'm on the spectrum. He is not autistic, he just has some other neurological disability that impairs his whole life. He has loving parents who brought him up and are his carers now, and he's very happy. When you push him along in his wheelchair he'd say hello to every person he sees, and if they respond he claps his hands excitedly and points and babbles. When some mean people snicker or make fun of him, he doesn't realise it, and he still claps his hands playfully just because they're looking at him, but he's unaware that their staring is not a friendly gesture.
He's actually the size of a normal 30-year-old man but he can't walk independently because his brain doesn't let him; it's like he's a 10-month-old baby trapped in a man's body. But to him the world is a very happy, simple place with friendly people everywhere and brightly-coloured objects to play with. That's all he sees the world as.
He doesn't have sensory issues or need for routine or special interests, because he's not autistic, but that still doesn't make him NT. He's very different and always will be. He'll never work, live independently, get a girlfriend, drive or have children. He doesn't even understand that there's a pandemic right now.

To me, someone who has mental issues is not an NT by any means. That can be trauma, anything that impacts the person's functioning and if their reaction is abnormal to a situation.

Yeah someone with mental issues isn't NT.

But that implies an autistic brain is never healthy.

I don't think that's true.

I think there are healthy allistic brains (NT ones), healthy autistic ones, mentally ill allistic brains, mentally ill autistic ones, learning difficulty allistic ones and learning difficulty autistic ones.

Also if I specifically refer to someone as NT, it's either cos for some reason I really need to make it clear they're not autistic or because they're the kind of extreme NT I mentioned above.

I wouldn't point it out otherwise.

It's difficult for me to deal with extreme NT people but a lot of my friends are allistic people with healthy brains who like the same things as me and are quirky like I am and don't care too much over gossip etc.

went to special school for children with disabilities when i was 5-12 y/o
there were some autistic, downs ,tourettes, learning difficulties , behaviour issues allsorts of neurodiversities that didnt qualify for mainstream school
probably nobody at the school were n-ts

There is no diagnosis for NT because it’s a control group in science i.e unaffected.

You can’t prove a negative.

ASD is regarded a disorder that’s diagnosed by positive symptoms by biological science, just like having COVID 19 is a disorder.

You can go for a Covid Test and it will come back negative, but what if you were infected by touching the door handle at the test Centre and it wont show up yet? which means you can’t prove a negative for COVID-19 only that your not positive.

It’s the same for NT as far as science is concerned a person may not show positive for autism or anything else which makes them NT. But that doesn’t mean they won’t get schizophrenia or some other neurological issue in a years time so you can’t prove or diagnose NT.

That’s why science is trying to find biological markers for ASD and other neurological disorders.

Everyone is NT until proven otherwise.

Hope that helps.