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Dandansson
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19 Feb 2022, 4:46 am

TheOutsider wrote:
Is it common for people with autism to pretend to be someone else when dealing with autistic traits that cause stressful situations and/or anxiety?

it reminds me of that person who behave like the "clown" in some social situations but...that person is never going to be a real clown, I think.



Dandansson
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19 Feb 2022, 4:49 am

ToughDiamond wrote:
Yes I think it's innate in humans and many animals. Babies learn to talk by noticing the people around them talking, and imitating what they hear.

And just to confuse things, there's this:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Imitation#Autism

but the question is: do they really imitate everything? Of course not. My understanding is that they imitate much better if they get help from an adult or older child.



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19 Feb 2022, 9:10 am

Dandansson wrote:
ToughDiamond wrote:
Yes I think it's innate in humans and many animals. Babies learn to talk by noticing the people around them talking, and imitating what they hear.

And just to confuse things, there's this:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Imitation#Autism

but the question is: do they really imitate everything? Of course not. My understanding is that they imitate much better if they get help from an adult or older child.

By "they," do you mean humans in general or autistics? If you mean autistics, all I know is that in my case I can remember imitating behaviour I felt like imitating, which wasn't everything. How would others help a child to imitate, other than being around and "accidentally" providing material for imitation?



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19 Feb 2022, 9:50 am

Finn Razelle wrote:
For me, the most unnerving implication of the concept of camouflaging is... How much of my public-persona behavior is down to pretending to be what people expect, and how much is based on my own true self? Would love to hear where other folks stand on this topic, where they are in this ongoing internal debate that seems to be a huge one within the autistic community.

I often find it difficult to know whether I'm being myself or applying some kind of "deliberate" compensation. I was diagnosed rather late in life. I had already learned a lot about getting on with people (from a very poor start), but as I didn't know I had ASD, I tended to see it as the same kind of laudable learning and self-improvement that many people would be doing throughout their lives. I still rather see it that way. How is it possible to distinguish growing from not being myself?

I remember a time after my diagnosis when I shared my thoughts about somebody's behaviour and likely feelings with a small group of people, while we were chatting. I felt good about having said that to them, but I had to ponder a bit later before I figured that I'd felt good because I'd demonstrated to them that I had a degree of social intelligence. I remembered another similar example from my pre-diagnosis days, and again, all I'd been aware of at the time was a good feeling about what I'd said.

All of which suggests to me that the masking of ASD traits can be quite hard to self-assess. It also suggests to me that it's not all about living a lie - all I was doing was showing a genuine strength, which was a real part of myself. I tend not to like camouflaging when it entails pretense (which I suppose it often does, in the same way as military camouflage is designed to fool the enemy by concealment). But if the definition is extended to less deceptive behaviour, instead of just signalling "I'm not one of those Aspies, I'm a neurotypical just like you superior beings," then I have much less of a problem with it.



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27 Feb 2022, 7:26 pm

OHHHHH yes, camouflaging was drummed-in at an early-age.
Camouflaging becomes increasingly learned via osmosis - hence becoming second nature.



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27 Feb 2022, 7:34 pm

i sorta wish it woulda become second nature to me, or is it that aspie males inherently have a harder time with it? :huh:



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28 Feb 2022, 6:08 am

Finn Razelle wrote:
From what I've read so far online and in the WP forum... (and thinking about my own tendency to people-please and "make nice," as my mother always puts it)... There seem to be a lot of different reasons for and approaches to camouflaging.

I especially liked Martin Silvertant's highly detailed (and heavily researched) article on the excellent "embrace-autism" blog. For what it's worth, this might provide a good place to start looking into the topic more deeply to see where your own approach to it might fit:

https://embrace-autism.com/autism-and-camouflaging/

(This is one of my favorite go-to sources for hard information written in a sensitive and respectful way. They also have a ton of informative articles on a whole range of topics under the umbrella of autism.

There's also a online test called the CAT-Q designed to attempt to quantify how much you camouflage in various interactions: https://embrace-autism.com/cat-q/


Thank you for the link. Informative writing.

The cat-Q test reveals my camouflaging to be off the charts:

Overall: 160
Compensation: 58
Masking: 47
Assimilation: 55

:!:


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28 Feb 2022, 6:09 am

auntblabby wrote:
i sorta wish it woulda become second nature to me, or is it that aspie males inherently have a harder time with it? :huh:


It appears, from my reading of it, that males have a more difficult time masking. Or hardly do it at all.


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28 Feb 2022, 6:12 am

ToughDiamond wrote:
Finn Razelle wrote:
For me, the most unnerving implication of the concept of camouflaging is... How much of my public-persona behavior is down to pretending to be what people expect, and how much is based on my own true self? Would love to hear where other folks stand on this topic, where they are in this ongoing internal debate that seems to be a huge one within the autistic community.

I often find it difficult to know whether I'm being myself or applying some kind of "deliberate" compensation. I was diagnosed rather late in life. I had already learned a lot about getting on with people (from a very poor start), but as I didn't know I had ASD, I tended to see it as the same kind of laudable learning and self-improvement that many people would be doing throughout their lives. I still rather see it that way. How is it possible to distinguish growing from not being myself?

I remember a time after my diagnosis when I shared my thoughts about somebody's behaviour and likely feelings with a small group of people, while we were chatting. I felt good about having said that to them, but I had to ponder a bit later before I figured that I'd felt good because I'd demonstrated to them that I had a degree of social intelligence. I remembered another similar example from my pre-diagnosis days, and again, all I'd been aware of at the time was a good feeling about what I'd said.

All of which suggests to me that the masking of ASD traits can be quite hard to self-assess. It also suggests to me that it's not all about living a lie - all I was doing was showing a genuine strength, which was a real part of myself. I tend not to like camouflaging when it entails pretense (which I suppose it often does, in the same way as military camouflage is designed to fool the enemy by concealment). But if the definition is extended to less deceptive behaviour, instead of just signalling "I'm not one of those Aspies, I'm a neurotypical just like you superior beings," then I have much less of a problem with it.


I agree; it is difficult to know what is masking and what is “normal” growth and development.

For me, right now, I think the difference is in whether the interaction/behavior results in more or fewer spoons.


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28 Feb 2022, 6:57 am

blazingstar wrote:
Finn Razelle wrote:
From what I've read so far online and in the WP forum... (and thinking about my own tendency to people-please and "make nice," as my mother always puts it)... There seem to be a lot of different reasons for and approaches to camouflaging.

I especially liked Martin Silvertant's highly detailed (and heavily researched) article on the excellent "embrace-autism" blog. For what it's worth, this might provide a good place to start looking into the topic more deeply to see where your own approach to it might fit:

https://embrace-autism.com/autism-and-camouflaging/

(This is one of my favorite go-to sources for hard information written in a sensitive and respectful way. They also have a ton of informative articles on a whole range of topics under the umbrella of autism.

There's also a online test called the CAT-Q designed to attempt to quantify how much you camouflage in various interactions: https://embrace-autism.com/cat-q/


Thank you for the link. Informative writing. The cat-Q test reveals my camouflaging to be off the charts:

Overall: 160
Compensation: 58
Masking: 47
Assimilation: 55

:!:

can you please tell me what that means?



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28 Feb 2022, 8:47 am

TheOutsider wrote:
Is it common for people with autism to pretend to be someone else when dealing with autistic traits that cause stressful situations and/or anxiety?

I was told that this may not be considered "masking/camouflaging". I'm talking about actually pretending to be someone else (whether it be a tv or movies character or someone in real life) in order to successfully "overcome" difficult to handle autistic traits such as social interactions, eating quirks, need for routine, etc. I'm wondering if this is common and if there is a term for it. If it actually is common, how do you deal with it?


Strange question but I will try and answer it.
I am a young boy living in a body that is now 73 years old. I am a little like Peter Pan.
Now here is the secret about how easy it is to accomplish this.

One of the easiest way to accomplish this as a male is to grow a beard or mustache. Once you grow one, people automatically stop thinking that you might be some strange form of a child.

The second thing about taking this approach is that I gain certain gift. My mind continues to evolve when most normal people are fighting the difficulties experienced in day to day life of grownups.

I see solutions to problems before many people even know there are problems.


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28 Feb 2022, 9:08 am

i can't even grow a proper beard or moustache. or even sideburns.



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28 Feb 2022, 1:42 pm

auntblabby wrote:
blazingstar wrote:
Finn Razelle wrote:
From what I've read so far online and in the WP forum... (and thinking about my own tendency to people-please and "make nice," as my mother always puts it)... There seem to be a lot of different reasons for and approaches to camouflaging.

I especially liked Martin Silvertant's highly detailed (and heavily researched) article on the excellent "embrace-autism" blog. For what it's worth, this might provide a good place to start looking into the topic more deeply to see where your own approach to it might fit:

https://embrace-autism.com/autism-and-camouflaging/

(This is one of my favorite go-to sources for hard information written in a sensitive and respectful way. They also have a ton of informative articles on a whole range of topics under the umbrella of autism.

There's also a online test called the CAT-Q designed to attempt to quantify how much you camouflage in various interactions: https://embrace-autism.com/cat-q/


Thank you for the link. Informative writing. The cat-Q test reveals my camouflaging to be off the charts:

Overall: 160
Compensation: 58
Masking: 47
Assimilation: 55

:!:

can you please tell me what that means?


After the test, which is at the link, it shows how autists score, how NTs score. Mine are higher than all by a lot.

I suppose that means I am a super masker/camouflager.


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28 Feb 2022, 10:56 pm

blazingstar wrote:
auntblabby wrote:
blazingstar wrote:
Finn Razelle wrote:
From what I've read so far online and in the WP forum... (and thinking about my own tendency to people-please and "make nice," as my mother always puts it)... There seem to be a lot of different reasons for and approaches to camouflaging.

I especially liked Martin Silvertant's highly detailed (and heavily researched) article on the excellent "embrace-autism" blog. For what it's worth, this might provide a good place to start looking into the topic more deeply to see where your own approach to it might fit:

https://embrace-autism.com/autism-and-camouflaging/

(This is one of my favorite go-to sources for hard information written in a sensitive and respectful way. They also have a ton of informative articles on a whole range of topics under the umbrella of autism.

There's also a online test called the CAT-Q designed to attempt to quantify how much you camouflage in various interactions: https://embrace-autism.com/cat-q/


Thank you for the link. Informative writing. The cat-Q test reveals my camouflaging to be off the charts:

Overall: 160
Compensation: 58
Masking: 47
Assimilation: 55

:!:

can you please tell me what that means?


After the test, which is at the link, it shows how autists score, how NTs score. Mine are higher than all by a lot. I suppose that means I am a super masker/camouflager.

do you accept that this capacity for super adaptation is a gift to be thankful for?



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01 Mar 2022, 5:35 am

^ I hadn’t thought about it one way or another. Just absorbing new, startling, information about me.

On the one hand, it has certainly made my life easier than those of us who can’t mask. No, not easier. Made it possible to have some success in the outer parts of life. Although much less success than was expected of me.

It does make me worry a bit about who the hell I am. But age has given me a perspective on that as well.

It also explains the exhaustion and collapse of my ability to deal with people. Used all of that up. No more energy to mask. Luckily, being older, I can transform into the cranky old lady persona.


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