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NT is also a disorder or condition?

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cyberdad
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11 Feb 2022, 7:30 pm

Edna3362 wrote:
And they're only as healthy as the society they're adjusting to, and as health is also shared by the consensus on how one adjusts to said society.


That's a good point. Social consensus over what constitutes "good" health is similar to what constitutes "normal".

It's another way people check themselves so NT is a "reference point" or benchmark.

As with the population normal distribution if you start to show signs of physical or mental illness then social consensus is that this is "pathological" (the severity is reliant on how much you deviate).

So health and normality can also be linked to wellbeing. In theory if you are normal health or normal mentally then you would have better wellbeing. So actually this is kinda complicated. More of a 3D model than a normal distribution, bidirectional spectrum or a unidirectional linear scale.



cyberdad
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11 Feb 2022, 7:32 pm

naturalplastic wrote:
"Neurotypical" means just that. Typically wired. Normal. Not a "condition" or disability.
.


Actually you can be "abnormally" wired and still function normally.



naturalplastic
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11 Feb 2022, 7:55 pm

cyberdad wrote:
naturalplastic wrote:
"Neurotypical" means just that. Typically wired. Normal. Not a "condition" or disability.
.


Actually you can be "abnormally" wired and still function normally.

WTF is your point?



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11 Feb 2022, 8:15 pm

cyberdad wrote:
lostonearth35 wrote:
NTs suffer greatly from the following symptoms:

Obsession with being what they call "normal"

No empathy for anyone who doesn't act, look, or think what they call "normal"

Lack of attention to detail. Sees details as "petty", worthless or not masculine.

Vague, confusing speech, tendency to say one thing and mean something completely different, expects everyone to be able to read their mind and know what they actually mean, reacts very negatively when they don't.

Inability to resist "peer pressure", will quickly and even willingly do things that are dangerous or just plain stupid in order to "fit in". Will also pressure others and bully them unmercifully if they refuse.

Inability to tolerate other people's opinions or liking something that they don't, believes firmly that "the complainer is always wrong", and that everyone must share the same opinions and like the same things in order to get along. Frequently confuses opinions or "factiods" with actual facts, e.g. vaccines save lives and do not cause autism.

May claim to love animals, but has very poor knowledge or education of the animals' behavior, diet, general likes and dislikes. Sees animals as exactly the same as humans and will do things that can harm them, such as feeding them human food or dressing them in stupid little outfits. Or they firmly believe all animals are the same as dogs, and must have the same slave-like devotion to pleasing their masters. Because of this they tend to dislike cats.

Constantly lying, doesn't just tell "white lies", but lies so much they are shocked and bewildered when other people tell the truth. Hates honesty and will be deeply offended when anyone tells them the truth or what they don't what to hear. Often gets rewarded for lying and dishonesty due to the majority of humans in the world suffering from the NT disease.

NT disease, there is no cure. :(



Sorry, you are entitled to your opinion but this is somewhat distorted.

Normality is like health.NT People don't go around obsessing over "being normal" just like people of average health don't go around obsessing over "being healthy".

If you are "normal" you never think about whether you are normal or not. Just like health. If you aren't sick then nobody thinks whether they are healthy.
l.


BS. NTs DO obsess about being normal, and about keeping up appearances, and status etc.

YES...on the specific issue of the autism-NT-dichotomy they never think about that. you're right that there is an asymmetry, and its only autistics who are obsessed with autism, and with concealing their own autism( like homosexuals keep their homosexuality under wraps). But neurotypicals never think about autism in general, never worry about it existing in themselves nor about it existing in others. But I dont think that that is what LostonEarth was talking about. She was talking about obsession with "normality" in general. Not with autism per se.



cyberdad
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11 Feb 2022, 9:15 pm

naturalplastic wrote:
cyberdad wrote:
naturalplastic wrote:
"Neurotypical" means just that. Typically wired. Normal. Not a "condition" or disability.
.


Actually you can be "abnormally" wired and still function normally.

WTF is your point?


There are people who function normally with abnormally wired brains. I think what you mean't was people with abnormal wiring + abnormal behaviour



cyberdad
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11 Feb 2022, 9:23 pm

naturalplastic wrote:
BS. NTs DO obsess about being normal, and about keeping up appearances, and status etc.


I don't think so. Keeping up appearances/status is about aspiring to elevate one's status in the eyes of society. Its not about obsessing to be "Joe normal"

I mentioned people check themselves based on the circumstance such as
driving normally on the road
being courteous/polite in public
Being friendly/sociable at parties
dressing appropriately

The above "normal" behaviour becomes second nature to the average NT, By the time they are teenagers they aren't bothered to pay much attention because they are well practiced so it comes naturally. No NT obsesses over this stuff.

I'm afraid you are doing the same thing as the person I responded to which project your own perceptions onto the NTs.



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11 Feb 2022, 11:16 pm

cyberdad wrote:
naturalplastic wrote:
BS. NTs DO obsess about being normal, and about keeping up appearances, and status etc.


I don't think so. Keeping up appearances/status is about aspiring to elevate one's status in the eyes of society. Its not about obsessing to be "Joe normal"

I mentioned people check themselves based on the circumstance such as
driving normally on the road
being courteous/polite in public
Being friendly/sociable at parties
dressing appropriately

The above "normal" behaviour becomes second nature to the average NT, By the time they are teenagers they aren't bothered to pay much attention because they are well practiced so it comes naturally. No NT obsesses over this stuff.

I'm afraid you are doing the same thing as the person I responded to which project your own perceptions onto the NTs.


A lot of my social behaviours have become natural to me too. Maybe some of my self-awareness came a bit later than my peers but it's now natural to me. The only thing I find exhausting is hiding my emotions - and I don't mean failing to answer a simple "I'm fine thanks" when I'm asked how I am by co-workers. I mean expressing through body language and facial expressions. I have to remember to switch to robotic mode when I'm in public places and look tough but calm and cool. No facial expressions when I'm on my own at all, and positive expressions only if I'm with someone.


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11 Feb 2022, 11:39 pm

Joe90 wrote:
cyberdad wrote:
naturalplastic wrote:
BS. NTs DO obsess about being normal, and about keeping up appearances, and status etc.


I don't think so. Keeping up appearances/status is about aspiring to elevate one's status in the eyes of society. Its not about obsessing to be "Joe normal"

I mentioned people check themselves based on the circumstance such as
driving normally on the road
being courteous/polite in public
Being friendly/sociable at parties
dressing appropriately

The above "normal" behaviour becomes second nature to the average NT, By the time they are teenagers they aren't bothered to pay much attention because they are well practiced so it comes naturally. No NT obsesses over this stuff.

I'm afraid you are doing the same thing as the person I responded to which project your own perceptions onto the NTs.


A lot of my social behaviours have become natural to me too. Maybe some of my self-awareness came a bit later than my peers but it's now natural to me. The only thing I find exhausting is hiding my emotions - and I don't mean failing to answer a simple "I'm fine thanks" when I'm asked how I am by co-workers. I mean expressing through body language and facial expressions. I have to remember to switch to robotic mode when I'm in public places and look tough but calm and cool. No facial expressions when I'm on my own at all, and positive expressions only if I'm with someone.


Over the years on WP, a number of members have expressed the view that they are socially accomplished. And like yourself that typical NT social behaviours come naturally to them.

I acknowledge some autistic people use masking to blend in, but I do believe you that many can blend in naturally.



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12 Feb 2022, 4:50 am

mohsart wrote:
Saying that NT is a disorder is like saying ND isn't, or like some say "everybody is a little bit autistic".
If everything is a disorder then nothing is a disorder.
It's like saying there are no good people since everybody do evil things, perhaps not as bad or as often, but it happens. But if there are no good people then there are no bad people either, one cannot exist without the other.

/Mats

what does "everyone is a little bit autistic" refer to?
But everyone is disordered. That's the thing. Do you know a perfect ordered person?
I really do think that people with NT struggle with the same thing I do. I was told once that if I experience a communication problem when speaking with someone I should know that even people with NT could experience the same thing. I like that thinking a lot! We all have our problems and issues.
The thing that is important is this: ASD is a syndrome and I think it makes us have more communication issues. Sometimes the NT people struggle because they use no strategies when communicating or become too emotional in a situation.

"What characterizes neurotypical people?
Neurotypical individuals are often described in relation to autistic people, so they may have:

no problem interacting with peers or having conversation
no noticeable speech delays as children
no sensory issues, such as not being able to tolerate crowds, loud noises, or being too hot or too cold
the ability to adapt to change "
https://www.healthline.com/health/neuro ... cteristics

This is bad info. Let's tell the truth. NT still makes people bad at interacting with peers at times. They might be able to tolerate crowds but I know some who can't stand mingling. It's not just an ND thing.



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12 Feb 2022, 4:55 am

cyberdad wrote:
naturalplastic wrote:
BS. NTs DO obsess about being normal, and about keeping up appearances, and status etc.


I don't think so. Keeping up appearances/status is about aspiring to elevate one's status in the eyes of society. Its not about obsessing to be "Joe normal"

I mentioned people check themselves based on the circumstance such as
driving normally on the road
being courteous/polite in public
Being friendly/sociable at parties
dressing appropriately

The above "normal" behaviour becomes second nature to the average NT, By the time they are teenagers they aren't bothered to pay much attention because they are well practiced so it comes naturally. No NT obsesses over this stuff.

I'm afraid you are doing the same thing as the person I responded to which project your own perceptions onto the NTs.

yeah exactly. You may havew issue with being called Mrs Bucket
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FboWtJiNYro



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12 Feb 2022, 6:12 am

Dandansson wrote:
cyberdad wrote:
naturalplastic wrote:
BS. NTs DO obsess about being normal, and about keeping up appearances, and status etc.


I don't think so. Keeping up appearances/status is about aspiring to elevate one's status in the eyes of society. Its not about obsessing to be "Joe normal"

I mentioned people check themselves based on the circumstance such as
driving normally on the road
being courteous/polite in public
Being friendly/sociable at parties
dressing appropriately

The above "normal" behaviour becomes second nature to the average NT, By the time they are teenagers they aren't bothered to pay much attention because they are well practiced so it comes naturally. No NT obsesses over this stuff.

I'm afraid you are doing the same thing as the person I responded to which project your own perceptions onto the NTs.

yeah exactly. You may havew issue with being called Mrs Bucket
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FboWtJiNYro


good old Mrs Bucket :lol:



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12 Feb 2022, 6:23 am

cyberdad wrote:
Keeping up appearances/status is about aspiring to elevate one's status in the eyes of society. Its not about obsessing to be "Joe normal"

I mentioned people check themselves based on the circumstance such as
driving normally on the road
being courteous/polite in public
Being friendly/sociable at parties
dressing appropriately

The above "normal" behaviour becomes second nature to the average NT, By the time they are teenagers they aren't bothered to pay much attention because they are well practiced so it comes naturally. No NT obsesses over this stuff.

I'm afraid you are doing the same thing as the person I responded to which project your own perceptions onto the NTs.


Yeah , that sounds very spot on. I'm borderline NT in traits, And i've observed NT actions , so I can deduce, their patterns, yeah, That sounds very right to me.
It's all very second nature to the average person. All autonomic.


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12 Feb 2022, 7:01 am

Quote:
no problem interacting with peers or having conversation
no noticeable speech delays as children
no sensory issues, such as not being able to tolerate crowds, loud noises, or being too hot or too cold
the ability to adapt to change "
https://www.healthline.com/health/neuro ... cteristics


While NTs aren't as noise sensitive as I am, they sometimes can be. They can jump at a sudden noise or become annoyed by a noise. The only difference is I focus too much on anticipating when a sudden noise might occur, while an NT will forget that the sudden noise is going to occur and only jump when it does happen.

A lot of NTs don't actually like crowds. One Christmas Eve the supermarket was buzzing with life at 2am with thousands of people that were trying to avoid the Christmas rush. They failed it by all having the same idea but thinking the idea is unique to each shopper. So they still ended up getting stressed with each other in the crowds, while during the day on Christmas Eve the store was practically empty, with only elderly people or other people that are clever and think outside the box. I know because people wrote it on Facebook. "Just got back from Tesco, it was manic in there at 2 o'clock in the morning! Stressful, glad to be back!"

Also my dad is NT but hates crowds and so he's started doing his grocery shopping online - something he never wanted to get into.


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12 Feb 2022, 12:23 pm

Dandansson wrote:
what does "everyone is a little bit autistic" refer to?

I'm surprised that you haven't come across this.
It's a typical response when talking about autism with NTs.
A way of belittling I suppose, "your problems aren't any worse than any others".

/Mats


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12 Feb 2022, 1:02 pm

I believe in the "everyone's a little bit autistic" but in a different way. The autism spectrum is becoming so broad that soon it will include everyone, because the response would be "well every Aspie is different." So you wouldn't know where to draw the line. Fifty years ago I probably wouldn't qualify to be on the spectrum. Now I can't escape it; I have very few symptoms in very complex ways and a lot of NT tendencies, but I still am on the f*****g spectrum because everyone on the spectrum got to be so different. :roll:


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12 Feb 2022, 1:12 pm

Joe90 wrote:
I have very few symptoms in very complex ways and a lot of NT tendencies,


I feel the same way.


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