Is Asperger's often confused with a personality disorder?
If anything, it reinforces my feeling that psychology is such a wishy-washy vocation that it does not deserve the descriptor of 'science,' and is too ruled by the subjective and experiential views of its practitioners to be of much value to many of those treated.
Not true, you can't say that without experiencing the psychiatry and psychology itself. It's not like they follow a long study (don't know how long, about 8 years in total I believe, in Holland) to be subjective and just 'guess' what the root of someone's problems are. It's just close-minded to say it's not a science, just because you have some prejudices against it.
We, as humans, need to be less suspicious and critically listen to what an expert has to say. With an open mind and the courage to ask questions and ask for clarification you will get to know yourself alot better.
They, the psychiatrists and psychologists, really do intend to help you, not to steal your money.
Everyone who sees a psychiatrist or psychologist has a responsibility him/herself too.
In the first place, you need to look for a doctor specialised in Autism. Sounds logical, but I have heard from a lot of people with autism who don't want professional help because they had a bad experience with a psychiatrist that couldn't help him/her.
Secondly, you also need to do something by yourself and take steps yourself. Maybe this also sounds obvious, but a doctor can not snap their fingers and make your problems go away, you have to take the first steps yourself.
Please, stop all these unnecessary preconceived opinions agains the psychiatry and psychology.
Such an error would be difficult to make if one was sufficiently informed, and sufficiently rational.
This seems to conflate the practical application of information arising from the science (if it is a science) with the science itself. It appears to me to be analogous to finding aviation science flawed because pilots are human and so necessarily flawed in ways that can manifest (with negative consequences) in the performance of their piloting.
When a plane crashes due to problems arising from a design flaw that itself is caused by the application of design principals that are contrary to the physics of our universe, that is a problem with the science behind the design. However, when a plane crashes because of pilot error, the fault lies elsewhere than the science.
The error of conflating personality disorders with ASDs does not seem to me to be a necessary implication of the perfect application of the knowledge currently available, but rather the result of human error (either due to lack of knowledge, erroneous knowledge or simply poor/inappropriate reasoning).
nominalist
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Here is what Christopher Gillberg wrote:
Personality disorders are often diagnosed in individuals who have had autism spectrum disorders since early childhood. Unlike in the case of schizophrenia, such diagnoses are not symptomatically inappropriate: the patients actually meet criteria for many of these disorders (perhaps particularly obsessive-compulsive, schizoid, narcissistic, paranoid, schizotypal, avoidant and borderline personality disorder). The question is whether it adds anything to the understanding of the person with Asperger syndrome to say that he/she also has this or that personality disorder.
- A Guide to Asperger Syndrome, p.56
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i_Am_andaJoy
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i have never been diagnosed AS, but i think i am something much closer to AS than to these things which i have been officially (but ineptly) diagnosed:
gifted (as a kid).
depression.
general anxiety.
bipolar (but with a rage state manifesting as the mania instead of the more common type of mania.)
borderline personality disorder.
Schizotypal personality disorder.
post tramatic stress disorder.
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good point. I would be curious to know what studies the compliers of the DSMs examine before making their choices of what to include and what to exclude.
wrt actual practitioners, one only has to read these boards on a regular basis to get a good idea of the frequency with which the multiple p.d.s are conflated wit AS - and who's to say that the first doc was wrong, and not the second? It may merely be that the second diagnosis feels less perjorative to the person whom it has been applied to.
I am glad, though, that this is a place where many people with similar personalities (whatever the basis) can gather and get a little of the understanding that the majority of the human population denys them.
nominalist
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This is from the DSM-IV diagnostic criteria for schizoid personality disorder:
"Does not occur exclusively during the course of Schizophrenia, a Mood Disorder With Psychotic Features, another Psychotic Disorder, or a Pervasive Developmental Disorder and is not due to the direct physiological effects of a general medical condition."
This is from the diagnostic criteria for schizotypal personality disorder:
"Does not occur exclusively during the course of Schizophrenia, a Mood Disorder With Psychotic Features, another Psychotic Disorder, or a Pervasive Developmental Disorder."
Given some (at least superficial) similarities between schizoid and schizotypal personality disorders and AS, it is interesting that having an autism spectrum disorder would appear to negate being diagnosed with either of these two personality disorders.
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Hi nominalist, you may be interested to hear that Prof. Fitzgerald of Trinity College, who I have met several times, says that the DSM-IV should be ripped up and burnt because several personality disorders are in fact modified expressions in adult, of developmental disabilities that exist from birth. I agree with this.
Another PD that Prof. Fitz added to the list, that Aspies can be misdiagnosed with, is Obsessive Compulsive (anankastic) Personality Disorder (OCPD):
MICHAEL FITZGERALD, 2002. Misdiagnosis of Asperger syndrome as anankastic personality disorder. Autism, 6(4): 435
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Obsessive- ... y_disorder
nominalist
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That could be. The problem is that, for now, much of the categorizing is guesswork. Once neurologists can more clearly connect cognitions and behaviors to specific brain centers and rates of neurotransmission, the entire nomenclature will likely be revamped. However, it is still a lot better than what we had up until the DSM-III (and revisions). At least the Freudian stuff has largely been discarded.
I am going to see if that article is available through my employer's online system.
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nominalist
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Okay, it is just a letter to the editor. I found it:
Clinical experience suggests that there are quite a number of patients in adult psychiatric hospitals who have been misdiagnosed as having anankastic personality disorder rather than Asperger syndrome. While the misdiagnosis of Asperger syndrome as simple schizophrenia and other conditions is very familiar, anankastic personality has not been given sufficient consideration in the differential diagnosis. The diagnosis of anankastic personality in ICD-10 (World Health Organization, 1993) is as follows:
1 The individual’s characteristics and enduring patterns of inner experience and behaviour as a whole deviate markedly from the culturally expected and accepted range.
2 The deviation manifests itself in a pervasive way with inflexible maladaptive behaviour.
3 There is personal distress, or adverse impact on the social environment, or both, clearly attributable to the behaviour.
There must be evidence that the deviation is stable and of long duration, having its onset in late childhood or adolescence. This is one factor that differentiates it from autism which must have an onset in early childhood.
The person must meet at least four of the following criteria:
1 preoccupation with details, rules, lists, order, organization or schedule
2 perfectionism that interferes with task completion
3 excessive conscientiousness and scrupulousness
4 excessive pedantry
5 rigidity and stubbornness
6 unreasonable insistence that others submit to exactly his or her way of doing things or unreasonable reluctance to allow others to do things.
It is quite clear that autism could easily be mistaken for anankastic personality disorder which has significant implications for clinical interventions.
A diagnosis and understanding of Asperger syndrome is critical to good therapeutic interventions.
Reference
WORLD HEALTH ORGANIZATION (1993) The ICD-10 Classification of Mental and Behavioural
Disorders. Geneva: WHO.
MICHAEL FITZGERALD
Henry Marsh Professor Child & Adolescent Psychiatry
Trinity College Dublin
_________________
Mark A. Foster, Ph.D. (retired tenured sociology professor)
36 domains/24 books: http://www.markfoster.net
Emancipated Autism: http://www.neurelitism.com
Institute for Dialectical metaRealism: http://dmr.institute
SilverProteus
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Yep, though not always.
Wow

Yep.
Nope, not in self-damaging ways.
Nope.
Definitely.
Emptiness as in 'void' or as in 'depressive'?
Shamefully true. I've hurt people I care about this way.
I guess.
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How curious, considering Prof Fitzgerald actually diagnoses specifically from DSM IV-TR? But let's not "do" the "nature/nurture", or the "DSM redress" debate right now. There is so much to be said for both sides.
Regardless, there is, of course, a serious problem with AS being misdiagnosed as a personality disorder, and an equally serious problem with serious personality disorders being misdiagnosed as AS, I have seen both with my own eyes.
Unfortunately, DSM or not, both are absolutely inevitable, because diagnosis is subjective. One diagnostician's PD is another diagnostician's ASD. There is no "AS virus" to objectively and definitively identify under a microscope.
The whole diagnostic process is also dependent on the level of communication established between subject and diagnostician, which can vary dramatically with individuals. No matter how experienced or well qualified, no diagnostician can read minds.
There is also the possibility of AS being co-morbid with personality disorders, which, if you accept the "nurture" element of causality in PDs, MUST inevitably occur given the requisite environmental factors, though whether the PD would exist in a modified form where there is AS, would be open to debate. Personally I would be inclined to think that would depend heavily on which environmental factors and which PD were involved.
M
ReineDeLaSeine14
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I have autism and BPD. Not a great combo but luckily for me the AS mutes some of the BPD traits and makes them not so harrowing...but INCREASES other traits.
Sometimes I'm just being innocent...other times I really have no clue what the **** is going on.
I actually had a personality disorder made up for me once. I have an illness perseveration (I have multiple genetic, autoimmune disorders etc) and was actually diagnosed with Hypochondrial Personality Disorder because I had health problems since I was little but they were undiagnosed but I knew SOMETHING was wrong.
I've even had a transient diagnosis of Munchausen's.
I've had many psych evaluations...and they're consistent (BPD, AS, bipolar, PTSD, OCD etc etc) so I am more than confident I've (finally) been diagnosed properly and can now learn to manage my emotions and behavior.
Personality disorders begin forming in childhood years but are at their worst in your teens and young adulthood. Even with treatment my BPD is estimated to go away on its own as well.
Compare that to AS which I was born with and have had traits of since I was a wee little lassie
It is estimated that I developed BPD because of being an undiagnosed Aspie all these years and being abused because I didn't know how to "behave"
But where is exactly the line between PDs and ASDs?
If I understand, development disorders (like ASD) have to do with objective impairments, while PDs have to do with subjective preferences and thinkings ("being bad at math" - objective impairment; "disliking math" - subjective preference).
However, many "official" symptoms of AS are (or could be) subjective preferences.
A. Qualitative impairment in social interaction, as manifested by at least two of the following:
1) marked impairment in the use of multiple nonverbal behaviours such
as eye-to-eye gaze, facial expression, body postures, and gestures
to regulate social interaction; > objective impairment
2) failure to develop peer relationships appropriate to developmental
level;> could be both
3) a lack of spontaneous seeking to share enjoyment, interests or
achievments with other people (eg: by a lack of showing, bringing,
or pointing out objects of interest to other people);>could be both: objective impairment (if you don't know how) or subjective preference (if you don't want)
4) lack of social or emotional reciprocity.> could be both (see above)
B. Restricted repetitive and stereotyped patterns of behaviour, interests,
and activities, as manifested by at least one of the following:
1) encompassing preoccupation with one or more stereotyped and
restricted patterns of interest that is abnormal either in intensity
or focus;> subjective preference
2) apparently inflexible adherence to specific, nonfunctional routines
or rituals; > could be both - objective impairment if you need routines, or subjective preference if you like routines
3) stereotyped and repetitive motor mannerisms (eg: hand or finger
flapping or twisting, or complex whole-body movements); > I don't know if how to consider this, perhaps an objective impairment
4) persistent preoccupation with parts of objects > subjective preference
Then, I think that the frontier between AS and a personality disorder is not much clear (btw, in the 90s, Sula Wolff sugested that AS should be reclassified as a personality disorder instead as a development disorder).
Note that many of the objective impairments usually associated to AS does not appear explicitly in the official diagnosis criteria (sensory issues - not appear; difficulty in understanding non-verbal comunication - not appear, at least explicitly; difficulty in understanding non-literal communication - not appear); I think that they appear in the diagnosis criteria of autism, but not in the present diagnosis of AS
Last edited by TPE2 on 26 Feb 2009, 10:23 am, edited 1 time in total.
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