Ocher wrote:
Hello, all!
First, I want to preface this with the notion that I am not attacking any of you or Asperger's Syndrome. As such, please read this as objectively as possible.
My question for all of you willing to answer it is, "What is Asperger's Syndrome?" I have been reading a large number of posts that seem to contain conflicting meanings, or meanings that change from one day to the next as the situation calls for it. The first example of this is using Asperger's Syndrome as an excuse to engage in otherwise unacceptable because the posters cannot control their own actions. Not only that, but this forum seems to exist as a way to support said behaviors. An illustration of this that comes up far more frequently than I would have imagined is "child loving." In any more developed country, a concept such as a thirty-year-old man being in love and trying to have a relationship with a fifteen- or sixteen-year-old girl is forbidden, and it is met with scorn under the pretense that to actually engage in such a behavior is horrendous, but on this forum, there is no scorn: "Well, maybe you would get caught," or, "you should not do that because it is illegal." Surely these are jokes. How can anybody actively or even passively support an idea as despicable as rape (in the United States, any such act with somebody under eighteen is rape)? I am sure I can supply links to these topics that I have seen on the forums, although I am only recalling them from memory right now.
An example such as that is important to understand because it shows how Asperger's Syndrome can be used as an excuse ("I do not understand these laws, but I know what I want, therefore, maybe the laws are wrong"). Before the question can be asked, "Can Asperger's Syndrome be used to excuse behavior?" the first question must be answered. Can any of you satisfactorily define Asperger's Syndrome and qualify it to be used as an excuse? If it is a set of behaviors, then the behaviors can be changed, correct? The argument to this is that there is a physical, material difference between those with Asperger's Syndrome and those without it. Can any of you support that argument? There is no evidence that indicates physical differences between the brains of those with Asperger's Syndrome and those without it, so this would lead to the argument, "Well, there are obviously differences. We just have not found them yet." Hopefully you can see that is leaking water like a gallon water bottle with the bottom cut off it? At this point, the only difference physically would have to be divine, and without any evidence of that, there is no reason to posit that is true.
If Asperger's Syndrome were a set of behaviors that had no physical link to them, then there would be no "cure" in the sense that Asperger's Syndrome would not be a disease. Drugs could be invented that would (ironically) change the way the brain works in somebody with Asperger's Syndrome, but there would be nothing physically wrong with him or her. If we return now to the question of excuses, positing that Asperger's Syndrome is nothing more than a set of behaviors, the answer would surely be "No, Asperger's Syndrome cannot be used to excuse or explain any action." This is so because you would only have the support of everybody else claiming to have Asperger's Syndrome. While I can understand why that would seem viable, would anybody agree that NAMBLA (South Park made fun of this group in one of the episodes) members should be excused if they claim to have a disorder or syndrome that was not physically apparent but caused them to not only want to engage in such horrible behaviors, but to actually endulge that drive and commit those actions?
The last question is, "If Asperger's Syndrome is only a set of behaviors, can those behaviors be changed?" Without any physical evidence suggesting that there is a difference between an "Aspie" and a "Neurotypical," it must be possible to change those behaviors with motivation. If somebody was unhappy about how he or she was because he or she had Asperger's Syndrome, that somebody said he or she could not change because he or she had Asperger's Syndrome, the logic would be, "I have Asperger's Syndrome, so I behave differently. I cannot change the way Asperger's Syndrome affects me because I have Asperger's Syndrome." Do you understand the problem with this logic? "I am dumb, and I cannot change the fact that I am dumb because I am dumb." "Asperger's Syndrome causes Asperger's Syndrome" would be the same logic because the logic posits that Asperger's Syndrome is not only the effect, but the cause, as well. Alternatively, the logic could follow, "I behave differently. Why do I behave differently? Because I have Asperger's Syndrome. How do I know I have Asperger's Syndrome? Because I behave differently." The argument goes in a circle.
Ultimately, is it easier to live when you feel are different because of something as scientific as a "syndrome," instead of that you are different? I do not see the reason why it is important if I believe everything stated above is true or false. Instead, those are several concepts I wanted to discuss. It seems as if something as undefined as Asperger's Syndrome needs to be kept within reason, and I have been upset with some of the posts recently here because of the aforementioned reasons. Another example is a two-year-old being diagnosed with Asperger's Syndrome. Maybe I was a dumb baby or toddler, but I do not believe I was very active then and I hope that I have changed significantly from those decades ago.
Once again, I am not posting this in the hopes that I will offend somebody. Instead, I am hoping to understand how some of these views can be accepted (the answer to "Why" is usually because it is easier). If there is any debate about physical evidence, reliable sources would need to be cited. Everything in this post could be wrong, and I accept that. I just wanted to bring all of this up.
Thank you,
-Ocher
My favourite explanation of Aspergers on the web can be found on the NAS website, here --->
http://www.nas.org.uk/nas/jsp/polopoly.jsp?d=212 You will probably find that explanations of AS on this forum do conflict - that is because the same traits represent very differently in individuals.
I thought the example you used of a behaviour for which AS was being used as an excuse was very unusual. I would like to describe a slightly more mundane example from my own life which I think will be more representative.
I used to work as the assistant manager of a storage center in north london. The difficulties I had to the job, related to my AS traits, were as follows.
*I found it impossible to manage the sales assistants due to my lack of social understanding. One of them used a lot of sarcasm against me and treated me with a total lack of respect because I think he instinctively knew that something was wrong with me. I would end up in tears at the end of every day because he would be so rude to me and I don't know how to be assertive.
*I was absolutely piss-poor as a salesperson, because I came off as being so odd and accidently said things that were innapropriate. I didn't do the right things in conversation.
*I had to continually deal with the unexpected, which caused me to become very anxious. I'm supposed to be the person who stays calm when an alarm goes off - not crying in the toilets due to sensory issues with the loud noise.
I could add to this but I want to make my post relatively simple.
I did not know I had Aspergers Syndrome at the point when this job made me breakdown, so the idea of using it as an excuse did not occur to me. Every day, I was working hard to try and overcome these problems, encouraged by my boss who believed it was immaturity and I could grow out of it.
And I had *some* success! I taught myself, on a very basic level, to make 'small talk'. I copied other people's phone manners, and even phrases I liked that they used, so that I eventually had a workable persona I could slip into whilst I was on the phone. Nowadays, I actually like using the phone at work because I can make myself appear quite normal since no one can see my weird mannerisms. I became able to cope with small changes in routine, like having my lunch at a different time or having to stay a couple of extra hours.
However, my essence remained the same. All I had done was appropriate other peoples behaviours. The second I had forced the last customer out of the door I would break down and cry at my desk, (did this every day for a month). I was trying, so, so hard, to improve what I was, but there was something fundamental that I just could not change.
I still believe in trying to correct behaviours which are offensive to others - the trouble is that if I was successful at this all the time I don't think I'd have the energy left to do anything else with my life. It is very, very exhausting trying to change behaviours!
24 Jan 2008, 4:19 pm
