Why be concerned with cure when no one is even close to one?
TheMandalore
Tufted Titmouse
Joined: 14 Oct 2007
Age: 38
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Location: Kansas, United States
26 Jan 2008, 12:48 am
Also, re-reading the other thread, there were a few issues that are very serious.
Elitism, some people might mistake my posts for that, but it isn't. Its simply wanting the right to exist the way I do, and I want that freedom extended to people of future generations. "Curing" children before they're born would completely wipe out Aspies/Auties in a single generation. They'd never get a chance to be "different". And I don't think NTs are inferior. I think THEY are "different", too. I insulted NTs in my earlier post to prove a point, that NTs are capable of terrible things. Aspies are too, to be fair, and I shouldn't have phrased it like that. But when you begin insulting me for my beliefs without being provoked, I will bite back.
The other point was ignoring more autistic(I hate the term "low functioning", it too is insulting in my opinion) people because they didn't fit in. And I'm not trying to ignore them, I've never been in their shoes. If they really are crippled by autism, and would like a "cure", then by all means they should have one.
But people on the spectrum who are told all their life that they are broken, the ones who if they were encouraged to be an individual and find their own strength might think of themselves as fine as well, those are the people I'm talking about. Don't call them broken, let them decide for themself if they like being the way they are.
And yes, there is a problem, if a way to take someone off the spectrum is ever found/developed, then what of the next generation? Like I said before, if it is mandatory for children in the womb, there is that problem. If it is the parent's choice... well the way autism is thought of by most people now prevalent, the same thing happens. But if people who like being on the spectrum are heard before then, it *might* be the best option. And if you wait until the age of consent for them to decide... well, if they really dislike it that much and did suffer, then there is another problem.
--Edit--Forgot one... kind of falls under Elitism though. Thinking NTs are inferior... I don't think it would ever come to that if more people had simple tolerance of autistic differences. I think the people who say that stuff are simply lashing out against a world that refuses to accept them. If the world does become more tolerant of Aspies as equals to NTs, then I doubt there would be such elitism.--Edit--
And to sum it up, this is probably the best way:
If there is even ONE person who would have been born after a "cure" is found that would have liked being on the spectrum, then how can you justify it?
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Last edited by TheMandalore on 26 Jan 2008, 1:18 am, edited 3 times in total.
26 Jan 2008, 12:57 am
I DON't REALLY think people KNOW how much CHAOS is happening ACROSS the board They is battle's all over the place, because people will not open they eye's to it...
Well basically taking the point of view of Dyslexia, cure's no matter how you look at it you’re going to lose whatever else you had from it, & really I would rather not be able to spell than be like the people with the attitude of mocking people who have problems with spelling... & last time I looked when did someone cure something? isn't it just prevent & contain or treat.
Right now the drug's they giving you is not treating you, It's blocking the neurotransmitters, THATS WHY THEY NOT MEANT TO BE USED LONG TERM...
Example of an ADHD drug
Not the fact that they looking for cures, it's the amount of money they spending in it, & the LACK of service & HELP for people living today or the future, the chances of finding a cure is Like a Needle in a Hay Stack, ( they not learning from they mistakes.... ) After support is continuing to fail, & also asking for help is failing too, you can look across the board of problems in life & find tone's of LACK of SERVICE, UNDERSTANDING, HELP & a range of other stuff Even military persons are been effected..
& really the amount of PROBLEMS science & the medical industry is coursing because of they damn wording... How you expect people to think... In my view ADULT's are the worse stage of HUMAN development, & I take this view only because A HELL of a lot of them are not LISTENING, they step over & apply they OWN VIEW which cause's tones of problems...
On one end the Science end is saying cure, on the offer part of it says it's a difference, so at what point or what the hell is normal to these people They framework of who they are?... Discrimination seems to be a big part in it, no matter how much someone try's with a problem, because I know with having dyslexia that people will not accept you no matter how much effort you put in... Would I trade that for a second if they could fix it, NO because I would not want to become one of them, on autopilot, because without people like me they probably would not even know it was they...
Cure is what exactly are they wanting to cure, where does acceptable start & stop, they do not outline what exactly they wanting to cure or help... As just by been INTROVERTED they want to MED you up & FIX you...
Bias Against Introverts?
Echoing an earlier Atlantic article, Mary Carpenter suggests we are biased against introverts:
As Barbara Ehrenreich wrote in a Time magazine column about personality tests, "Their chief function as far as I could tell . . . was to weed out the introverts. When asked whether you'd rather be the life of the party or curl up with a book, the correct answer is always, 'Party!' " ... self-help books that include blatantly stupid questions ... paints introverts as "over-critical," "pessimistic" and "anxious," and describes them as feeling "unaccepted, unacceptable or simply inferior." It's enough to make an introvert mad. ... My enormous, extended and extroverted family still poses a challenge, especially on the small island where we converge for a few weeks every summer. ... But the family is making strides in recognizing its introverted minority.
With a little search I find that the shy and introverted both suffer in many ways:
Introversion is indeed more active than shyness in inhibiting religious disposition. ... Very Conservative males reported the lowest rate of overall shyness. ... Non-shy respondents reported the highest rate of starting their own business, ... Non-shyness and extroversion reported the highest household income levels ...Shyness has a greater impact on the reduction on eye contact than does introversion. ... Those with the lowest rates of eye contact achieve the lowest ranks [at the workplace].
We might posit a grand conspiracy of extroverts to keep introverts down, but a more plausible explanation to me is that extroversion is just valued more by society and business.
I was a shy young nerd and thought I was an introvert, but eventually learned that I was reacting to the fact that other people didn't like to be around me. Once I found people who liked to be around me, I loved to be around them too, and was often the last person to leave from a party. Of course it is possible that my personality changed.
Add this part on*
There are many introverts who are salespeople earning in the six figure bracket and many are also motivational speakers. These are just some of the positive advantages shy introverts have. Executives and managers in a company need to understand that shy introverts work differently than extroverts. The other part of this is to get the shy introvert from focusing on their weaknesses because they are a shy introverts strengths. They need to work from their: Skills, Talents, Knowledge and Abilities in order to move them forward in life and feel confident as they reduce their shyness.
http://www.overcomingbias.com/2007/03/b ... st_in.html
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Prior To Understanding What The Problems Are, An Individual Can Head In Many Different Directions, Wasting Valuable Time & Effort. When S?He Learns What The Problems Are & What Can Be Done Then S?He Has a ?Compass? To Guide Him/Her
Last edited by logitechdog on 26 Jan 2008, 2:44 am, edited 1 time in total.
26 Jan 2008, 1:16 am
Nice try, but my social problems go deeper than that and BEFORE I had any problems with short term memory. ALSO, how do you explain the autistic people that seem to have *****LOTS***** of energy?
26 Jan 2008, 2:19 am
The reason that things that are considered causes for CFS are also considered causes for autism, is likely because anything that has no cure and where the cause is unknown, becomes a prime example of something that people can sell expensive "cures" for.
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"In my world it's a place of patterns and feel. In my world it's a haven for what is real. It's my world, nobody can steal it, but people like me, we live in the shadows." -Donna Williams
26 Jan 2008, 4:56 am
To the OP,
The concern is not so much being concerned with a cure by itself, precisely for the reason you stated - we are nowhere near one (and never will be). It's being concerned about the behaviour of those who are seeking a cure. There is a chance (a remote one at present thankfully but a chance nevertheless) that someone who is very much an active member of the mercury milities to get into a position where they may well commence what the owner of the Hating Autism blog calls "rounding up and cured".
My cheif concern is with the delay such people are providing to the effort to find the genetic origin of ASD's - thereby silencing the mercury militia ance and for all.
Having said that, we then have to silence them from pushing the taking of the same step as has already happened with Downs Syndrome (a pathetic act and a denial of the rights of the child before being born and I am against abortions for such reasons). Autism Speaks needs to be pulled into line on that pronto.
You know it just struck me about CFS, and the point about the hyperactive nature of most ASD's is most pertinent to this. That fact would be evidence (given as I recall hyperactivity is one of the diagnostice criteria for ASD's - hence the bringing in of ADHD as an ASD) AGAINST CFS being related to ASD's - because they clash. For someone on the Spectrum to have CFS means there has to be a cause that has nothing to do with the ASD. The only effect would be the side effect of the loss of the hyperactivity, and the likely onset of depression because of the sheer effect of such a change.
26 Jan 2008, 5:10 am
Keep up your research Zendell, don't let people discourage you.
The reason they get offended is because they get the genetic and the environmental components mixed up. Also they are trying very hard to fit into mainstream society and they don't want any additional reasons to feel different. Naturopathic medicine and a holistic worldview would separate them from their peers even more.
Having said that, a lot of what you say consists of generalizations and is overly enthusiastic, but I think that's how everyone feels when they discover something that's exciting to them. After a while it settles and you don't feel the same urge to tell everyone. I know, I've been there.
CockneyRebel
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26 Jan 2008, 8:00 am
More power to you. I choose not to go that route.
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The Family Schlager
26 Jan 2008, 1:34 pm
Nice try, but my social problems go deeper than that and BEFORE I had any problems with short term memory. ALSO, how do you explain the autistic people that seem to have *****LOTS***** of energy?
I don't believe that everyone is autistic for the same reason. I only stated that some of the things that may cause CFS may also cause autism in people born with it. I never stated or meant that there are no other causes. I think some causes are genetic and others are completely unrelated to CFS.
I'm sure if you had both autism and CFS, you would be less interested in genetics and more interested in what could possible cause both. I'm trying to cure CFS now, not autism, but obviously I want to first try what may work for both.
