22 Mar 2008, 11:02 am
22 Mar 2008, 11:09 am
22 Mar 2008, 11:33 am
22 Mar 2008, 12:02 pm
22 Mar 2008, 3:03 pm
cas wrote:
The different magnitude of difficulty doesn't invalidate the analogy. I was trying to make the point that if I didn't choose to be bad at this supposedly simple task, then it doesn't follow that I must have made some kind of choice to be bad at a more involved task.
Pouring a glass of juice has no emotional depth it's one dimentional and completely different.
(edit): Unless you really are bad at pouring juice, in which case I misinterperated your comment as sarcastic and I apologise
cas wrote:
But if you want to believe that self-hate or a conscious decision might lie behind my coordination issues, too, then the comparison clearly isn't going to work as intended.
You're taking a sarcastic comment I made in my defence from your own sarcastic comment literally??
Alot of you strongly disagree with what I'm saying, whatever, everyone's different. My opinion is based on years of introspection, trying to make sense of my condition.
I remember reading Calvin and Hobbes and deciding that Calvin has no friends except his stuffed tiger so I decided I only needed my stuffed dog. A concious decision on my part.
Mabey this doesn't apply to any of you?
22 Mar 2008, 3:40 pm
Yukailife wrote:
cas wrote:
The different magnitude of difficulty doesn't invalidate the analogy. I was trying to make the point that if I didn't choose to be bad at this supposedly simple task, then it doesn't follow that I must have made some kind of choice to be bad at a more involved task.
Pouring a glass of juice has no emotional depth it's one dimentional and completely different.
(edit): Unless you really are bad at pouring juice, in which case I misinterperated your comment as sarcastic and I apologise
cas wrote:
But if you want to believe that self-hate or a conscious decision might lie behind my coordination issues, too, then the comparison clearly isn't going to work as intended.
You're taking a sarcastic comment I made in my defence from your own sarcastic comment literally??
Yes, I thought you meant it literally. I am bad at pouring drinks, but while I can pour juice without spilling any if I'm in a good mood and concentrating and the bottle isn't heavy, that doesn't mean that I'm being silly or intentionally bad when I do spill things. (I think there is emotion in pouring though, because there's emotion in anything that you find difficult especially if it's not difficult for everybody.) The similiarity is that I can make friends and be social when I'm in a good mood and concentrating and I'm not trying to talk about something difficult, too. I'm sorry because my wording was flippant originally, but I also meant it seriously.
The two situations seem very alike to me because they're both things I've had trouble with, and other people criticize me for my trouble or question if I'm being passive-aggressive instead of making mistakes honestly. It doesn't matter how hard you try or how often, you also need to have a certain amount of insight and steadiness and focus, at least until (and if) you get to a certain level of skill. Probably a lot of people are reacting badly to your conclusion because we are often told that we chose or are choosing to be as we are (and could have done differently if we really cared or tried) when we feel like we've done the best we could most of the time.
22 Mar 2008, 4:12 pm
22 Mar 2008, 4:26 pm
Yukailife wrote:
When I look back at my early childhood I remember having a group of tight friends in my neighborhood, as well as playing with the other kids who would come to my yard or I would go to theirs. In grade five I became immersed in my own world, I decided for some reason I didn't want friends anymore and did my own thing.
I decided I would be a king when I grew up in my own country and was dead set on this goal, I even wrote to Jean Chretian asking to be excused from school so I could pursue this.
In gym class I never played what everyone else was playing, in ninth grade I was transfered to a special program at another school.
About halfway through the year I became friends with some of my classmates, this was the first time in like four years I was interested in having friends. We all went to highschool together in a special program that allowed a few "integrated" classes per semester.
The first day of highschool I decided I wanted to be "normal" now so I decided to skip registration to my special program and follow some "normal" kids.
I eventually got sent where I was supposed to go
but I was deadset on just being normal, problem was, due to bad decision making during my socialy formative years, I had no idea how to interact with people resulting in some very angsty years.
So think back, was there a point in your childhood where you decided you would rather play alone? Where freinds were unnessicary? And you regretted it when you got older right?
I decided I would be a king when I grew up in my own country and was dead set on this goal, I even wrote to Jean Chretian asking to be excused from school so I could pursue this.
In gym class I never played what everyone else was playing, in ninth grade I was transfered to a special program at another school.
About halfway through the year I became friends with some of my classmates, this was the first time in like four years I was interested in having friends. We all went to highschool together in a special program that allowed a few "integrated" classes per semester.
The first day of highschool I decided I wanted to be "normal" now so I decided to skip registration to my special program and follow some "normal" kids.
I eventually got sent where I was supposed to go
but I was deadset on just being normal, problem was, due to bad decision making during my socialy formative years, I had no idea how to interact with people resulting in some very angsty years.So think back, was there a point in your childhood where you decided you would rather play alone? Where freinds were unnessicary? And you regretted it when you got older right?
Life have rules but I have to admit, you got to fight for what you believe but what is there that is right thing to believe? True wisdom is valuable than none.
22 Mar 2008, 5:07 pm
How exactly does ANYONE have the ability to make pragmatic decisions about anything, let alone socialization, during their formative years? Young children (NT or ASD or whatever) lack that mental sophistication...
I understand and appreciate your desire to gain a sense of personal responsibility, Yukailife, especially because I was of that mentality myself for much of my life - trying to find out where I was responsible for certain things. Unfortunately, you're just gonna have to accept that it just wasn't your fault 
