Adult Aspies - do you still fit the DSM-IV criteria?

Page 2 of 3 [ 36 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3  Next

2ukenkerl
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 19 Jul 2007
Age: 64
Gender: Male
Posts: 6,277

16 Apr 2008, 10:07 pm

Jeyradan wrote:
Shayne wrote:
1) qualitative impairment in social interaction
2) restricted, repetitive and stereotyped behaviors and interests
3) significant impairment in important areas of functioning
4) no significant delay in language development
5) no significant delay in cognitive development, self-help skills or adaptive behaviors(other than social interaction)
6) criteria are not met for another specific pervasive developmental disorder or schizophrenia.


Yes, every single one. If you look at the expansions, the descriptions of Autistic Disorder touches on some things that apply to me that aren't addressed by the expansion for AS, but I am in complete agreement with my AS diagnosis.

I don't know about professionals listening. After I had the diagnosis from one qualified professional, it seemed that the second one investigated it with the idea of checking anything that would rule it out, but decided that it was indeed correct. It did not seem at all like she was trying to disprove anything. However, I talked to a third professional in between those two, who was unaware that I had been professionally diagnosed, and she didn't seem as if she were paying much attention to the issues of that particular diagnosis, and said that I "could say I had it if that was what I wanted." Needless to say, I switched to another psychologist in the department (who was told by my doctor of my diagnosis in advance).


Well, If you use the old criteria, you should look at AS, then autism(kanners), then PDD. If you meet the criteria for AS, you are AS, even if something is described in autism(kanners). The items in Autism(kanners) that could(They were relaxed to allow for HFA) exclude AS have similar exclusions in AS that exclude autism(kanners).

It seems like, with the things some chose to make hazy or change, that AS and autism(kanners) are almost a tossup.



Tensho
Supporting Member
Supporting Member

User avatar

Joined: 25 Mar 2007
Age: 43
Gender: Male
Posts: 480
Location: England

17 Apr 2008, 8:17 am

I match all the criteria and was diagnosed this year at 26 years old.

I do think there is a lot of confusion at the moment in what AS is and its leading normal people to self diagnose. But without having a history as a child with AS then I dont think its AS at all. Normal people who are just bad socially would be able to get diagnosed with these criteria if they arent taking in consideration its a developmental disorder from birth.



17 Apr 2008, 8:21 am

I would have met the AS criteria if I didn't have a development delay and speech delay. But I met enough in the other parts but not all of the bold.



Liverbird
Supporting Member
Supporting Member

User avatar

Joined: 13 Jun 2007
Age: 55
Gender: Female
Posts: 1,119
Location: My heart belongs to Anfield

17 Apr 2008, 8:33 am

On the surface, I don't appear to meet many of the criteria. I think, however, this is what makes adults so difficult to diagnose is that they learn over time, to hide some of their odder features. What I do inside myself is a complete mess, but I can usually appear to hold the rest of me together.

I have hope that with the advent of the DSM-V, I will meet more of the criteria. When is that sucker going to come out?


_________________
"All those things that you taught me to fear
I've got them in my garden now
And you're not welcome here" ---Poe


9CatMom
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 1 Jan 2007
Gender: Female
Posts: 5,403

17 Apr 2008, 8:35 am

1. I consider myself shy, and usually focused more on my work than on interactions with others, although I am friendly and do interact with people.

2. Yes, I still have strong interests, and some can be considered unusual, both in intensity (a love of cats and other animals), or out of place, given my age (a 43 year old woman who likes Roger Bannister)

3. No significant impairment in anything except for lacking a driver's license. I function well, but sometimes do dumb things. I consider myself a bit clumsy, but otherwise functional.

4. This applies. I learned to speak and read well at an early age. I started out speaking German, learned English at six, and Spanish in high school. Language usage is one of my strong areas.

5. Other than being a bit clumsy, as I described earlier, and a bit introverted, I don't see myself as having notable social problems.

6. No schizophrenia or any other known disorders. They tried to tell me I was hyperactive as a child. I was high energy, but it was always focused and I was a driven person academically.



Danielismyname
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 2 Apr 2007
Age: 44
Gender: Male
Posts: 8,565

17 Apr 2008, 9:09 am

Liverbird wrote:
I have hope that with the advent of the DSM-V, I will meet more of the criteria. When is that sucker going to come out?


2011.

I doubt there'll be many differences, but that's me speculating.

I'll post some different diagnositic criteria for AS:
Quote:
GILLBERG'S CRITERIA FOR ASPERGER'S DISORDER

1.Severe impairment in reciprocal social interaction
(at least two of the following)
(a) inability to interact with peers
(b) lack of desire to interact with peers
(c) lack of appreciation of social cues
(d) socially and emotionally inappropriate behavior

2.All-absorbing narrow interest
(at least one of the following)
(a) exclusion of other activities
(b) repetitive adherence
(c) more rote than meaning

3.Imposition of routines and interests
(at least one of the following)
(a) on self, in aspects of life
(b) on others

4.Speech and language problems
(at least three of the following)
(a) delayed development
(b) superficially perfect expressive language
(c) formal, pedantic language
(d) odd prosody, peculiar voice characteristics
(e) impairment of comprehension including misinterpretations of literal/implied meanings

5.Non-verbal communication problems
(at least one of the following)
(a) limited use of gestures
(b) clumsy/gauche body language
(c) limited facial expression
(d) inappropriate expression
(e) peculiar, stiff gaze

6.Motor clumsiness: poor performance on neurodevelopmental examination

(All six criteria must be met for confirmation of diagnosis.)


Professor Attwood and his modified DSM-IV-TR criteria:
Quote:
what is asperger's syndrome?
Dr Hans Asperger, an Austrian paediatrician, originally described Asperger’s Syndrome in 1944. The syndrome has more recently been classified as an autistic spectrum disorder.

Children and adults with Asperger’s Syndrome have an intellectual capacity within the normal range, but have a distinct profile of abilities that has been apparent since early childhood. The profile of abilities includes the following characteristics:

A qualitative impairment in social interaction:
* Failure to develop friendships that are appropriate to the child’s developmental level.
* Impaired use of non-verbal behaviour such as eye gaze, facial expression and body language to regulate a social interaction.
* Lack of social and emotional reciprocity and empathy.
* Impaired ability to identify social cues and conventions.

A qualitative impairment in subtle communication skills:
* Fluent speech but difficulties with conversation skills and a tendency to be pedantic, have an unusual prosody and to make a literal interpretation.

Restrictive Interests:
* The development of special interests that is unusual in their intensity and focus.
* Preference for routine and consistency.

The disorder can also include motor clumsiness and problems with handwriting and being hypersensitive to specific auditory and tactile experiences. There can also be problems with organisational and time management skills and explaining thoughts and ideas using speech. The exact prevalence rates have yet to be determined, but research suggests that it may be as common as one in 250. The aetiology is probably due to factors that affect brain development and not due to emotional deprivation or other psychogenic factors.

The characteristics of Asperger’s Syndrome described above are based on the diagnostic criteria and current research and have also been modified as a result of my extensive clinical experience.


Quote:
DIAGNOSTIC CRITERIA FOR ASPERGER'S DISORDER (SZATMARI, ET AL. 1989)

A. Solitary, as manifested by at least two of the following four:

1. No close friends.

2. Avoids others.

3. No interest in making friends.

4. A loner.

B. Impaired social interaction, as manifested by at least one of the
following five:

1. Approaches others only to have own needs met.

2. A clumsy social approach.

3. One-sided responses to peers.

4. Difficulty sensing feelings of others.

5. Detached from feelings of others.

C. Impaired non-verbal communication, as manifested by at least one
of the following seven:

1. Limited facial expression.

2. Unable to read emotion from facial expressions of child.

3. Unable to give messages with eyes.

4. Does not look at others.

5. Does not use hands to express oneself.

6. Gestures are large and clumsy.

7. Comes too close to others.

D. Odd speech, as manifested by at least two of the following six:

1. abnormalities in inflection.

2. talks too much.

3. talks too little.

4. lack of cohesion to conversation.

5. idiosyncratic use of words.

6. repetitive patterns of speech.

E. Does not meet criteria for Autistic Disorder.



Kaleido
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 18 Feb 2007
Age: 66
Gender: Female
Posts: 2,615

17 Apr 2008, 9:53 am

I was recently re-assessed and I was still considered to be well within the framework of AS, I thought I would be borderline at worst or a 'residual' or 'past' aspie, but no, still an aspie.

I suppose I am not surprised by this since I seem to have some dysfunctional areas that have not improved over the years.

The bits that appear to have improved are the bits where I have learned to pretend really well, but even they fall apart after quite a small amount of time.

Oh well, its not the end of the world is it :wink:



Mindtear
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 28 Sep 2007
Age: 46
Gender: Male
Posts: 721
Location: UK

17 Apr 2008, 9:59 am

I have most of the criteria with a large over compenstion for those i dont readily show, such as eye contact and a few others. I tend to stare down people without realising it.



2ukenkerl
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 19 Jul 2007
Age: 64
Gender: Male
Posts: 6,277

17 Apr 2008, 10:11 am

Daniel,

THANKS for renewing my faith in Attwood, etc... His criteria DO fit me. I guess GILLBERG'S criteria are about the only ones that don't!

SZATMARI's DOES require my taking other people's opinions of some things such as "lack of cohesion to conversation. ", but HEY, YOU said that was a GOOD thing! :lol:



Jeyradan
Velociraptor
Velociraptor

User avatar

Joined: 16 Jan 2008
Age: 39
Gender: Male
Posts: 488

17 Apr 2008, 10:13 am

Quote:
DIAGNOSTIC CRITERIA FOR ASPERGER'S DISORDER (SZATMARI, ET AL. 1989)

A. Solitary, as manifested by at least two of the following four:
1. No close friends.
2. Avoids others.
3. No interest in making friends.
4. A loner.

B. Impaired social interaction, as manifested by at least one of the
following five:
1. Approaches others only to have own needs met.
2. A clumsy social approach.
3. One-sided responses to peers.
4. Difficulty sensing feelings of others.
5. Detached from feelings of others.


C. Impaired non-verbal communication, as manifested by at least one
of the following seven:
1. Limited facial expression.
2. Unable to read emotion from facial expressions of child (I can't read from anyone EXCEPT children!)
3. Unable to give messages with eyes.
4. Does not look at others.
5. Does not use hands to express oneself.

6. Gestures are large and clumsy.
7. Comes too close to others.

D. Odd speech, as manifested by at least two of the following six:
1. abnormalities in inflection.
2. talks too much (when I am enthusiastic about something)
3. talks too little (the rest of the time)
4. lack of cohesion to conversation (sometimes)
5. idiosyncratic use of words.
6. repetitive patterns of speech.


E. Does not meet criteria for Autistic Disorder.


I'd never really looked at the Szatmari criteria before. I guess I fit those, too. I think the criteria set with which I would most agree would be a fusion of the DSM-IV and the Gillberg criteria, with perhaps some explanations of what the statements mean provided by examples from Szatmari. Good thing they're all out there.



bettybarton
Blue Jay
Blue Jay

User avatar

Joined: 15 Apr 2008
Gender: Female
Posts: 87

17 Apr 2008, 10:51 am

i thought over sensativity to light, noise, foods etc are also an issue!
and- having problems being in the company of others. neither of these issues is covered in criteria, but seem anecdotially to be a huge problem- they are for me.



2ukenkerl
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 19 Jul 2007
Age: 64
Gender: Male
Posts: 6,277

17 Apr 2008, 10:55 am

bettybarton wrote:
i thought over sensativity to light, noise, foods etc are also an issue!
and- having problems being in the company of others. neither of these issues is covered in criteria, but seem anecdotially to be a huge problem- they are for me.


Detail in the DSM DOES list them!



bettybarton
Blue Jay
Blue Jay

User avatar

Joined: 15 Apr 2008
Gender: Female
Posts: 87

17 Apr 2008, 10:58 am

ok- thanks for the correction!
:D



Sora
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 15 Sep 2006
Gender: Female
Posts: 4,906
Location: Europe

17 Apr 2008, 11:59 am

Since my diagnosis was only a year ago, everything stayed pretty much the same regarding required criteria. I was diagnosed by use of the ICD-10 though.

I could expand, because there is more to the explanation of ICD-10 than just that one paragraph. At least, people are using this further explanation all the time.

I'm sure there's a better translation than mine from German to English... but it turned out quite good actually.

Quote:
ICD-10
F84.5 Asperger's Syndrome

A: no clinically significant delay of spoken or receptive language or of cognitive development. At the age of 2, single words must be spoken, at the age of 3 or earlier language must be used to communicate. Self-help skills, adaptive behaviour and curiosity towards the environment must be at a level that is appropriate of the intellectual skills at the age of 3 years. Nevertheless, motor development can be delayed and motor clumsiness is usually observed (but not a required criteria). Single special skills often exist that are usually associated with abnormal occupations that are however not required for the diagnosis.

B: Qualitative abnormality regarding reciprocal social interaction show in at least 2 of the following criteria:
*Inability to establish and sustain an adequate eye-contact, lacking in facial expression and posture, lacking in gesture to regulate social interaction
*Inability (in a form that is appropriate to the mental age and despite officiant opportunities) to establish relationships with peers that involve around the share of interests, activities or emotions
*Lack of socio-emotional reciprocity that shows in a inadequate or abnormal reaction to the emotions of other people; or lacking in the ability to self-regulate behaviour to a level that is appropriate to the social context; or a low level of integration of social, emotional and communicative behaviour
*lack of spontaneous will to share happiness, interests and achievements with other people (e.g. a lack of interest to bring objects to people that they find to be of importance)

C: The patient displays an unusually strong and special interest or limited, repetitive and stereotypical behaviour that manifests in at least one of the following:
*a concentrative occupation with stereotypical or limited interests that are abnormal in content or field; or one or more interests that are limited by intensity or speciality, but not so in content or field
*obvious and compulsive following of certain non-functional routines and rituals; stereotypical or repetitive motor movements that either include the flapping or twisting of hands or fingers or complex body movements
*Occupation with parts of objects or non-functional elements or toys (such as the colours, the feeling of the surface or the noise/vibration of such).
It is however rare that these certain elements include motor movements or occupation with parts of objects or non-functional use of toys.

D: The disorder is not explained better by other PDDs, simple schizophrenia, schizoid personality disorder, OCD...


...and some other stuff I won't bother listing because I sure as hell have not heard of those before.

Was that descriptive now or not?


_________________
Autism + ADHD
______
The trouble with having an open mind, of course, is that people will insist on coming along and trying to put things in it. Terry Pratchett


EvilOlive
Raven
Raven

User avatar

Joined: 9 Apr 2008
Gender: Female
Posts: 106

17 Apr 2008, 12:14 pm

I would have fit the criteria more distinctly when I was a child.



Rainstorm5
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 19 Feb 2008
Age: 58
Gender: Female
Posts: 948

17 Apr 2008, 10:37 pm

Diagnosed as an adult. AS was unheard of when I was a child, and when my kids were little.

1) qualitative impairment in social interaction

Yes. Very much so.

2) restricted, repetitive and stereotyped behaviors and interests

Yes. Creature of habit and a creature of obsession. Ongoing.

3) significant impairment in important areas of functioning

This one seemed sort of vague to me, could describe a lot of things, but yes there are a lot of problems I've dealt with in regard to functioning as a "normal" adult.

4) no significant delay in language development

I began talking at the same time I began to read, at the age of three. So yes, no significant delay.

5) no significant delay in cognitive development, self-help skills or adaptive behaviors(other than social interaction)

No delays in these areas, either, save for some minor problems with acquiring self-help skills.

6) criteria are not met for another specific pervasive developmental disorder or schizophrenia.

No other developmental disorders and though I had some problems with having a 'fantasy prone personality' in my early years, the docs assured me later on that I didn't have schizophrenia. I've since learned that AS people can often have a very detailed fantasy life.


_________________
Terminal Outsider, rogue graphic designer & lunatic fringe.