How to fight NT-style

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I know what you mean,Greentea. Aspies tend to be hard working (less wasting time with
idle chit chat,more conscienscious) so we end up being landed with more work. I had a
major problem in a previous job because I was made supervisor and felt it was my responsibilty to tackle every problem that cropped up.The best answer is to try and prevent
problems happening in the first place or nip them in the bud immediately.It's a lot easier
said than done but in my current job I've disciplined myself to take a note of everything I
do,all the tasks,phone calls and emails I deal with. If I find I'm being snowed under I can
back it up with figures to show how my time is being taken up.There is only so much that each
person can do.I've also learned that it's best to underplay my own importance to the boss and
make a point of hinting that I just want to do what's best for the 'team' and company.
The bosses can't argue with that or else it exposes their hidden agenda and delusions of
grandeur

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I used to try to reason with people too. Nowadays I give them what I know will create in them the reaction I need them to have. I don't waste my time and energy anymore trying for them to be logical. And yes, usually a scream does it.

Pluto, that's what I did yesterday. When the boss told me that he expects from me much more than from the rest of the team because I can do so much more than the others (and that he's considering firing me for not reaching what he thinks is my full potential), rather than arguing that it's unfair I said "Maybe you overestimate my abilities". That seemed to calm him down a bit. He's demanding from me inhuman amounts of work and inhuman amounts of hours a day - when I work 12 hours he scolds me for going home too soon.

The thread title made me think this thread was going to be about how to engage in close quarters combat like an NT, as if the OP were getting beaten up by NT bullies and wanted to fight back.

^ I wonder if their is a chuck noris for ASs

I could do that too. I'm a blue belt in Brazilian Jiujitsu, also trained in Muay Thai and mixed martial arts.

i've encounted similar fights with management. usually results in me getting fired.

apologies in advance for being blunt but my advice would be to get another job

Write issues down and use logic. It is possible to make the other person appear illogical and a hypercrit

I am learning that a buddy system works best for Aspies. Channel all your communication through a few safe people. There are three of those at my job. Everyone else gets the following: A randomly selected greeting from a memorized list and any conversation is answered with the minutia of the current task you're working on.

That makes no sense. I don't understand why people do that. I've never really noticed that, but I'm only a student and just have a part-time job. I only try to give points in an argument that make sense, because it's just stupid to do otherwise (or so I thought).

But the goals of nts and aspies seem to differ in most fights. Nts will almost always just want to fight to 'win' and fullfil their selfishness and vent their anger. It's useally also about gaining some kind of dominance over whoever they're fighting while aspies useally can't even imagine fitting themselves in any position in the imaginary totempole-positions that are being fought over. Aspies are going to want to tackle the issues to prevent complications. At least that's how I think it goes down.

I've always argued using the facts - as I understood them - which means that every once in a while it is proven that my understanding of the facts may be incorrect. Truth is, when it comes to 'gentlemanly debate,' MOST people - including both NTs and Aspies - do not know how to argue effectively. There actually is an "art" to it. I was taught how to debate in high school and continued debate in college (at one time I actually wanted to be a lawyer), and in leaning how to do so, I got into the habit of collecting facts (called 'proofs') that supported my position in a given argument. These days, true Debate is a dying art, choked by 'what ifs' and slanted opinion. People can't merely take a side and present the facts. No, they try to either shout down, obfuscate or simply ignore facts in an effort to solidify their position. In America, the infamous TV/talk radio host Sean Hannity exemplifies this immature, rudimentary form of debate in which he shouts down and overtalks those to whom he has asked a question. I can't listen to him talk - he's an idiot, regardless of his political leanings. In a real college debate, he would have been run out of the building. The man never learned the 'proper' way to argue. He just assumes his opinions are the right ones and any dissenting voices are tuned out and blown away by his own hot air. He likes to listen to himself talk about how right he is (both literally and figuratively) and unfortunately a lot of conservative-minded Americans think exactly like him. The very idea of intelligent, well-thought-out debate is an alien concept to people of his ilk.

Most times, if I want to argue something, I gather all my facts and list my reasons for using them. This is how I got a brand new computer at work - I wrote a memo to Corporate listing reasons A through Z why I had to have a new computer. As long as you state your facts and provide logical reasons for doing so, people may not always agree with you, but most of the time they'll at least see your point. Sometimes, maybe most times (if you argue well), you will get your way.

^ High school debater here as well. Learning how to logically argue has helped in my career, but my family never forgave me. After I learned how to debate, they had a very hard time winning arguments. Carefully choosing the battles for which I argue a point is also a major factor. If I can't support the point I want to make, I avoid getting into an argument.

Z

Well-said. Picking the right battle is very important. I, too, will sit out of an argument if it's over a subject I care little about or really have no background in. No sense in arguing over something one doesn't fully understand. It's like bringing a rubber dagger to a gunfight - one will look like an idiot AND get killed. (Figuratively speaking, of course).

Hahaha Jillian!

I sit out of a whole lot of stuff on WP because of the rubber dagger problem.

Z

I do wonder if some NTs who try and argue "illogically" have learned to do so, consciously or subconsciously, in order to manipulate the situation and get their own way. With people who are that way inclined they are strategically (again, consciously or subconsciously) ignoring the details of the facts so they can bend the truth in order to win.

Don't beat yourselves up about not being able to do this, it's not a very nice skill to be using especially in the workplace. Although it can be quite useful I suppose if you have to deal with someone who plays the game like this and you need to stoop to their level in order to hold your own.

I'd like to point out that I believe most NTs are honest when they're arguing, and the ones that aren't are usually just scared of confrontation or upsetting people and this can be why they bend the truth. The other main reason for behaving like this is that they simply are bad managers and have not received appropriate personnel training (a common fault in the workplace from what I can tell).