How Bullying Is Overblown: The Flaws Of The Disadvocates

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I am not harassing you no more than you are harassing everyone else. I was just pointing out something you could do to make your lengthy posts easier to absorb.

Well, I'd also appreciate a comment on the topic at hand if that's not too much to ask.

Well, it'll have a lot of responses, all in one.

First, I don't see where you're taking offense at 2U in this thread; I am not aware of the other thread you reference, and don't really wish to. Just that cross-contamination of threads with vitriol and tangents does little for conversation.

Second, I generally do not like the assertion or accusation of another person being a troll. Tends to inflame situations. Based on the definition, the provocative nature of your posts could be construed thus. I don't have an opinion, other than sometimes the way things are said might be otherwise considered. That's my personal opinion... *shrug*

Third, most of the bullying I took was not physical. Not many people choose that as the first option when the person towers over them... I experienced more subtle forms that didn't leave bruises and scars.

Fourth... in terms of how to deal with it. We cannot control others - this is a futile waste. We can control ourselves and our reactions. Our fears should be our own; not someone else's to dictate and control. When we get away from a blame and protect mentality, there is room for things to change. Insular action promotes the further power of a bully.

Fifth: what standard of measure do you need for proof? We can look at anecdotal incidents, such as the girl who was bullied on MySpace and subsequently committed suicide - there are other cases where situations led to individual actions. If you need case studies, that may take me a bit longer to cull the academia for.

Lastly... being impassioned about your opinion is good; becoming defensive or rude is another thing altogether. We all could use a little less of the latter, methinks.


M.

Not the lone cause, but there is seldom one cause, aka factor, for suicide.

Bullying led to boy's suicide

Soldier 'prone to being bullied'

My daughter was bullied to death

Bullying 'rife' in ambulance service

Missouri outlaws cyberbullying after MySpace suicide

I want to relate the last time I saw a gorilla in person. It was at the OKC Zoo and this gorilla was far from being a bully. He sat there he was sooooo still and so amazing. I wish you could have seen him. He was just so zen. Unbelievable how still he was and he was sitting just like a buddha sits, I am serious.

I have seen a monkey sitting in a similar way, not like a buddha but just as still. He was on this perch with his knees drawn up to his chest, he was pink furred. His eyes were closed and I stared at him and about four seconds later his light pink but somewhat pastel blue eyelids popped open and I saw his dark eyes and I saw something in his eyes that I found irresistible and lovable.

A pink monkey?

Never heard of a pink monkey.

That was her decision to do that, a bully did not kill her. Goading is one thing, but the act itself is another. In the end it is the individual's actions, can you blame circumstance on every thing?
I make these provocative points to make you think, if all we did on this site was whine and agree with each it wouldn't be very interesting, now would it. I don't like it when people derail me because they feel I have offended them, I am not politically correct and proud of it.
and if you interpret my defense as rude than that is your own personal problem like any other interaction with another human being.

You asked if bullying leads to suicide; that is one example where there is provocation leading to an incidence. I also asked what proof you required - will you oblige me with an answer? Circumstance is not to blame; it can only contribute. Never do I begrudge your right to provoke thought... only thought to mention why one would consider your posts to have a troll-like fashion. When you do invite people to think, however, you also invite their opinions and their arguments to that effect. No artifice of sympathy there. Defensiveness is double-edged... while it is up to others to react to it, it is you who reaps the effect, is it not? Just asking...


M.

Perhaps but I find the ''white whale'' hatred of aspies for all things socially imposing to be a tad bit cumbersome.
To be honest, I was expecting someone other than you to comment, I doubt she's seen this though...

I'm afraid I do not understand the white whale reference - I do understand the Moby Dick reference, but not the subsequent portion. I'm not sure what exactly you are referring to in this hatred... please explain? And if I may ask, are you writing to garner a specific person's reaction?


M.

Your point just doesn’t make any logical sense. Nobody claimed the bully literally killed her. That’s a straw man argument.

Now blaming the suicide completely on the individual makes it look like you don’t have a clue what kind of mental torture people who consider suicide as their only escape must go through. It’s not like people just decide to kill themselves willy-nilly. Bullies can and do make people’s lives intolerably miserable.

Also, in the really bad cases it’s never a single individual to blame. Usually there is one or two kids involved directly in the bullying, but many others empowering the bullies by condoning or encouraging the attacks. That’s the truly sick part that needs to be addressed. Kid’s can be educated that this behavior is wrong and intolerable so they won’t side with or join in with the bullying when it happens. It's this "singling out" that tends to be the most distressing aspect for the victim to cope with.

Last edited by marshall on 31 Jul 2008, 3:47 am, edited 1 time in total.

Yes, I may worded the above rather clumsily, it just seems like aspies have this bully-hate going on. Not that I defend them, but I honestly believe blind faith in something is something to be questioned, that's probably why I'm not religious.

and I am trying to get her statement because in her previous post on this matter she failed to explain in a plain and rational manner.
And her statement was completely different to MysteryFan's, not just in dialect but message.

I can appreciate the apprehension with blind faith, no argument here.

Having experienced being bullied some, I can understand the anger and resentment. Part of it is real, part of it is poor or brutal humor, part the result of communication obstacles, a part of it sensitivity... as I said, we are better off seeking to control our reactions to such things than to trying to control the behavior of bullies. It may not be painless, but I find it preferable to acquiescence or self-deception.

If you want someone's response, I advise a PM... just a thought. Otherwise it can seem a little strange to be bringing something up in public for that purpose.


M.

I'm still not 'getting it' ('it' being the point). My interpretation of your comments would be that you are correlating hatred of bullying with blind faith, so I figure I've misinterpreted something there. After all, when someone is kneeling on your chest, clasping fist-fulls of your hair for the purpose of driving your head repeatedly into the ground, it does not require blind faith to conclude that this experience is doubleplus ungood and doubleplus unfun. When a particular person keeps imposing experiences of this kind on you, against your will, over a long period of time, I fail to see why one would require blind faith (or indeed any form of faith) to form hatred for this person and/or their conduct.

FreedomG, can you produce any documentation to support your assertions, or is this all just your opinion? If this is just your opinion, what are your educational credentials? Just askin'.

First of all, I am not the one that came on SO recently, started so many topics, and stated so many things in an incendiary fashion.

ooOoOoOAnaOoOoOoo and I are two different people. She HAS a point though, and OTHERS have said it to other people. If you don't want to do it, why even bother writing?

As for the claim that I am doing this on a forum merely because I can, most of the posts I have made have NOT been claims of superiority, baiting, or insults. And I can certainly not get any joy or benefit from doing so. BTW, I DO do the same at work! Just yesterday, I had to make it clear about others being WRONG, and defend myself when they claimed I said what I DIDN'T! THERE, it allows my job to run more smoothly, and allows me to keep it.

Now, as to the suicide tie. It is FACT it causes pain! Does that REALLY need to be explained? I mean LET'S try to prove in court that guns can hurt people! It is a FACT that pain, etc... can push people closer to suicide. Again, CLEAR FACT! People have committed suicide apparently at a mere INSULT! So do we REALLY have to prove that a shot from a gun can hurt? EVEN if it didn't, the bullet could have contamination that could do ALL sorts of things! Likewise, do we have to prove that bullying can cause suicide? It HAS caused DEATH, a mere CUT can cause a problem, and it could simply be the last straw!

BTW, since it otherwise might come up. A FACTOR IS part of a CAUSE! There have been cases where a component is made to withstand the removal of one bolt. Removing one bolt does NOT cause a breakdown, and removing two DOES! One is simply a factor. BUT, you can't remove two without removing one. So one is simply a factor, but IS part of the cause. Likewise, chemicals and experience can cause depression which, ITSELF, is only a FACTOR in suicide. It is a BIG factor though.