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catspurr
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10 Aug 2008, 12:54 am

I'm very chatty with one on one conversations. In group settings, I barely speak at all.

Hard to keep up with multiple conversations. It all sounds like gibberish to me so I end up staring at the wall.

Not sure why it's hard to spot in females but Spokane Girl does make valid points. Apart of being lady like is not making the first move and being shy I guess.



donkey
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10 Aug 2008, 7:24 am

zghost wrote:
Quote:
any good articles on female aspies?

This is one of the best I've seen: http://www.freewebs.com/aspiefrommaine/index.htm
Quote:
Why is it hard to tell in females?

I guess we fake it better.


yeah most women do fake it better.


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Ishmael
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10 Aug 2008, 7:29 am

Tony Attwood's book touches on this some.
Largely, it's because of social expectations, and the variable effect between male and female Aspergers.


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skahthic
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10 Aug 2008, 7:53 am

There is no "one" good article--- everybody is different when you look at them one at a time. This is the same for NT and Aspies. People behave differently, and this makes it even harder to figure things out.
The best thing to do is read many articles, and then come up with a blending of ideas.



Angnix
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10 Aug 2008, 8:34 am

The chatty thing is interesting, I sometimes monolouge, but sometimes I can do good at a conversation, I was wondering if females were better at that than males, cause my conversation skills and not many problems with facial expresions are my non-aspie qualities...


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corroonb
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10 Aug 2008, 9:22 am

catspurr wrote:
I'm very chatty with one on one conversations. In group settings, I barely speak at all.

Hard to keep up with multiple conversations. It all sounds like gibberish to me so I end up staring at the wall.


I'm like this as well. I'm good in small groups and I can be witty when I'm relaxed but if there are any strangers present I'm usually very quiet.

I think in "Western" cultures shyness is a more acceptable trait in women than in men. Men are supposed to make the first move which sucks for me because I'm useless at taking the initiative. Females also tend to learn social skills better than males whether the females are NT or aspie. They learn to share their feelings better whereas males are supposed to be tough and macho.



2ukenkerl
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10 Aug 2008, 9:37 am

I still think that if I were female, I would be just as hard to spot.

The physical areas I am not good at are things women were encouraged NOT to be good at!

The talking about subjects is more likely to be accepted from women.

Women don't have to understand men, though I DO think men are easier to understand.

Certain movements, etc... might even be ENDEARING with women!

So I could see it as being harder to spot in women.

As a male, my lack of some coordination, and social problems, really makes one wonder. If I was born 2 decades later, they WOULD have easily figured I was AS.



tomboy4good
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10 Aug 2008, 9:52 am

KateShroud wrote:
ooOoOoOAnaOoOoOoo wrote:
I am so terrible at faking stuff :(

I haven't figured out all this acting stuff either. I'd rather be on the computer or somehow learning about something that interests me than faking who knows what. You're not the only woman like this.


LOL I am very much a WYSIWYG. (What you see is what you get!) I am a horrible liar, & faking anything is simply not part of my nature. The closest I can come is to lie by ommission (not say anything), because as soon as I open my mouth things go very badly for me. I decided years ago to be honest...even if most people don't care for the truth.


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benjimanbreeg
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10 Aug 2008, 10:54 am

Fnord wrote:
Women fake everything better than men!


lol, what oragams?



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10 Aug 2008, 4:04 pm

Here's a great quote from my favorite AS book:
"A child who is aggressive, noisy, exhibiting lack of motor inhibition (wild, acting out) is attended to, and this behavior is characteristic of boys. A child who is well behaved, quiet, and apparently compliant will often be overlooked, sometimes despite underachievement. Such a child is quite likely to be a girl. Consider the following scenario:
A schoolteacher tells students at the beginning of a lesson that they should be sure to ask for help whenever they need it to understand the lesson. A boy with AS has his hand raised from the outset and won't put it down. The subject matter is after all, new and he has taken the teacher's words literally. A girl may have taken the teacher literally as well, but she resolutely keeps her hand down. She has known too many occasions when people's words did not represent their intention. She has been ridiculed or criticized for missing point. So she keeps her questions to herself and, in this isloation, misunderstands a good many things, therefore failing the lesson. In this hypothetical example, observers would easily detect the literal-mindedness, with a touch of perseveration, in the boy's response, which so clearly manifests AS cognitive traits. The girl, though she has the same traits, handles them differently in her efforts to navigate through a confusing world. But she is AS -- and her life challenges are rooted in AS -- just the same."
-- Jean Kearns Miller, "Under-diagnosis in Women", Women From Another Planet?



LeKiwi
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10 Aug 2008, 4:10 pm

Pi woman, that sums me up so well. I'm normally very chatty, quite witty if I say so myself, and although I don't 'get' social situations a lot of the time I do give them a go and just kinda stagger through reasonably well because I have such a good 'NT' thing going on and I don't want to blow it. But there are certain people who I just shut up around because in the past we've disagreed on things or they've told me to shut up, so I do. I know what they've done in the past, I know how they react to my input, so I just don't say anything.

I also find that in bigger social settings I'm more than happy to just sit and listen, even though usually you can't get me to shut up (I'm very good at monologuing if I don't watch myself, I have to be careful not to). If there's a big group I'm aware of hogging conversation and I'm not good at interrupting because I have no idea when the appropriate time to is, so I'll just sit and listen. My partner often pulls me aside when I do this and asks what's wrong because he thinks I'm upset because I'm quiet, but I'm not upset - just happy to listen.

I have a blog going aimed at females with Aspergers, it's not very big yet and there's a gap in the posts because of something big that came up recently so I couldn't update, but it will be. I'm also writing a book aimed at girls with AS that will incorporate some parts of it so feel free to have a read and comment if you want to! It's linked in my signature. :)


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zen_mistress
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10 Aug 2008, 4:24 pm

I certainly never had the "shy girl" thing going on at school. I was often in various types of trouble for opening my mouth, and I was too impulsive and wilful to simply decide to be quiet and go along with things.

I have changed a lot now though, I realised that I had to learn what NTs were doing, there was no other way. I wish I had been smarter as a child and kept my mouth shut, but it wasnt in my nature then to do so.


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KateShroud
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10 Aug 2008, 5:37 pm

I was even worse than the boy in this scenario. Not only would I raise my hand, but I would regularly shout at the class to shut up. They were often so loud, and to this day I can't understand why they did all the talking instead of getting the work done. I knew if I didn't get it done in class, then I'd have it for homework.



Tahitiii
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10 Aug 2008, 7:24 pm

pi_woman wrote:
The girl, though she has the same traits, handles them differently in her efforts to navigate through a confusing world.
That one makes sense.

Another thought, for what it's worth:
I worked in an institution for mentally ret*d kids back in the stone age (mid 1970's).
We had almost twice as many boys as girls. The popular explanation was that people kept
the girls home because (a) girls are more docile and manageable, and (b) ret*d boys
are more of a shame.


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Angnix
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10 Aug 2008, 8:02 pm

:oops: Some guy living in my building said "come knock on my door anytime sweetheart" its stuff like that I'm not sure he meant what I thought he did... can't tell...


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corroonb
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10 Aug 2008, 8:07 pm

Angnix wrote:
:oops: Some guy living in my building said "come knock on my door anytime sweetheart" its stuff like that I'm not sure he meant what I thought he did... can't tell...


I believe that's called "flirting".