Devils Advocate

Page 2 of 2 [ 30 posts ] Go to page Previous 1, 2

dougn
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 19 Aug 2008
Age: 37
Gender: Male
Posts: 773

23 Aug 2008, 4:17 pm

I'm not the sort of person who insists on arguing against people even if I agree with them.

I argue with people a lot, but it's usually when I genuinely disagree with them.

nettiespaghetti
Deinonychus

Joined: 22 May 2008
Age: 46
Gender: Female
Posts: 343
Location: Michigan

23 Aug 2008, 7:41 pm

slowmutant wrote:

nettiespaghetti wrote:

I also tend to do this alot and I think people do get pissed off until I tell them I'm just trying to look at it from both standpoints. It's a logical thing to do really.

But is it the socially intelligent thing to do? Sometimes, SQ trumps logic.

I see you're point. Just for the record, I hate arguing with people, but if someone (just for example) comes to me and says "so and so said/did this. I don't know what they were thinking they're so stupid" Then I might go into why I think they did and I think the way I go about it makes them think I secretly agree with the other person and not them because I didn't automatically stick up for them and tell them "oh yeah I'd be pissed too" or whatever. But like I said in other posts, I do sometimes piss people off without really meaning to or wanting to and so I know I have many things to learn in the social NT world.

_________________
Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former - Albert Einstein

corroonb
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 28 Oct 2007
Age: 40
Gender: Male
Posts: 1,377
Location: Ireland

23 Aug 2008, 7:54 pm

Arbie wrote:

If given the time I'll play devils advocate in my head when contemplating complex ideas I have about various things. I find it illuminating.

I do this all the time and it's one of the reasons I am never lonely.

dougn
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 19 Aug 2008
Age: 37
Gender: Male
Posts: 773

23 Aug 2008, 8:04 pm

corroonb wrote:

I do this all the time and it's one of the reasons I am never lonely.

I do that too.

I'm not never lonely, though... Wish that were true, but it's not.

slowmutant
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 13 Feb 2008
Age: 46
Gender: Male
Posts: 8,430
Location: Ontario, Canada

23 Aug 2008, 9:14 pm

If you're never lonely, you must be a potted plant or a coma patient.

corroonb
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 28 Oct 2007
Age: 40
Gender: Male
Posts: 1,377
Location: Ireland

24 Aug 2008, 7:03 am

slowmutant wrote:

If you're never lonely, you must be a potted plant or a coma patient.

Again with the insults. Very Christian of you.

I have never felt lonely because I have myself.

slowmutant
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 13 Feb 2008
Age: 46
Gender: Male
Posts: 8,430
Location: Ontario, Canada

24 Aug 2008, 10:41 am

corroonb wrote:

slowmutant wrote:

If you're never lonely, you must be a potted plant or a coma patient.

Again with the insults. Very Christian of you.

I have never felt lonely because I have myself.

That was intended as a joke. I should have added the :wink:

emoticon.

Koldune
Snowy Owl

Joined: 11 Jun 2007
Age: 69
Gender: Male
Posts: 133
Location: At the tree from whither come the roots of which no one knows

24 Aug 2008, 11:06 am

If I argue, its because I disagree with a voiced point of view and I think it needs to be challenged. Arguing just to be arguing is not only useless, it's ridiculous and usually only makes trouble, and I wouldn't want trouble. Saying other than what one truly believes sounds to me too much like lying.

On the rare occasions when playing devil's advocate might be useful, I would let people know, verbally and concretely, ahead of time that I'm switching into that mode. It would sound like "Just to play devil's advocate for a moment here, what about this: ...?" That saves them the surprise and annoyacne of finding out that I'm not voicing what I really believe to be true. As for getting people to think, I have enough trouble managing my own thinking. I would rather leave others' thinking to them.

_________________
Ek mun þola. (I shall endure [Old Norse]).
The greatest school of magic is life itself; the strongest spell, the one you cast yourself.
I ain't been vampired: you've been Weatherwaxed.
?E. Weatherwax
Pro te ipso faciete. (Do for yourself.)

-JR
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 10 Jul 2008
Age: 39
Gender: Male
Posts: 650
Location: Somewhere in Time

24 Aug 2008, 12:27 pm

dougn wrote:

I'm not the sort of person who insists on arguing against people even if I agree with them.

I argue with people a lot, but it's usually when I genuinely disagree with them.

I should clarify-I argue the point-NOT against people.

By the way, there is a thing about arguing that's really annoying. I find the idea of "convincing" people to be repulsive to the max. It's probably because the use of emotion to sway, and also the assumption of low intelligence to even try.

_________________
Still grateful.
"...do you really think you're in control...?"
Diagnosis: uncertain.

corroonb
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 28 Oct 2007
Age: 40
Gender: Male
Posts: 1,377
Location: Ireland

24 Aug 2008, 12:34 pm

-JR wrote:

dougn wrote:

I'm not the sort of person who insists on arguing against people even if I agree with them.

I argue with people a lot, but it's usually when I genuinely disagree with them.

I agree. Any kind of argument directed at the person rather than their words or beliefs is bullying or ad hominem (at the person).

dougn
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 19 Aug 2008
Age: 37
Gender: Male
Posts: 773

24 Aug 2008, 1:04 pm

corroonb wrote:

I have never felt lonely because I have myself.

I wish I felt that way.

-JR wrote:

I should clarify-I argue the point-NOT against people.

Sorry, I worded that very poorly. I should have written "arguing with people", not "against people".

corroonb wrote:

I agree. Any kind of argument directed at the person rather than their words or beliefs is bullying or ad hominem (at the person).

I also agree. I do argue a lot but I do not make personal attacks. (Doesn't mean they don't respond with them, of course.... :roll:

)

I get very confused when people get personally offended just because I disagree with them.

Douglas_MacNeill
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 10 May 2007
Age: 61
Gender: Male
Posts: 1,326
Location: Edmonton, Alberta

24 Aug 2008, 1:20 pm

NeantHumain wrote:

Frankly, the idea that an aspie would play devil's advocate is ridiculous. First, there is the intolerance for the unknown or unpredictable. Second, people being pissed off may be overwhelming for many aspies. Third, I don't like the sound of the word devil; you make us sound like satanists. I'm not trying to play devil's advocate here, but I think you're wrong.

Devil's advocate was originally a term in Roman Catholicism; it
referred to the canon lawyer who argued the case against the
canonization of a would-be saint. By extension of the sense, someone
who argues the case against a commonly held opinion can be called a
"devil's advocate." I sometimes play this role, but that is in order to
present an alternative that others may not have thought about.

-JR
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 10 Jul 2008
Age: 39
Gender: Male
Posts: 650
Location: Somewhere in Time

24 Aug 2008, 1:41 pm

NeantHumain wrote:

Hm. Interesting. Yet another reason I'm probably not AS.

I'd like to point out that for me it's not "imagining" things spontaneously, rather taking all information given and forming/exploring numerous possible conclusions. Seeing what is "correct" and "not correct" is a little difficult in many areas, because of this...

Also, to me, it seems that people's opinions are usually valid, based on reason, or experience. Even if the opinions are NOT based on logic, I can understand where they come from, and appreciate their point of view, even if I totally disagree with it. They might be incorrect, but I can't know everything about a situation to make a judgement.

Also, taking the devil's advocate point of view is usually done in a mild way, for me anyway. What gets me in trouble is when I don't respond in a normal way to certain people's issues... I'm expected to go with the crowd, and I simply can't. Either that, or people get annoyed with it and assume I'm screwing around.

_________________
Still grateful.
"...do you really think you're in control...?"
Diagnosis: uncertain.

dougn
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 19 Aug 2008
Age: 37
Gender: Male
Posts: 773

24 Aug 2008, 4:35 pm

-JR wrote:

Hm. Interesting. Yet another reason I'm probably not AS.

I took NeantHumain's post as a sarcastic one. Maybe it wasn't, but that was my impression.

It seemed to me that he actually was playing devil's advocate (in a playful/sarcastic way) by disagreeing with everyone else and saying that an aspie would never play devil's advocate.

Page 2 of 2 [ 30 posts ] Go to page Previous 1, 2

Jump to:

Devils Advocate Post Reply New Topic

Devils Advocate