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makuranososhi
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19 Sep 2008, 3:00 pm

*smile* I am glad you responded, Inventor.


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IdahoRose
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19 Sep 2008, 3:06 pm

I'm sure a few of them did, but I doubt every single one did.



Tahitiii
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19 Sep 2008, 3:10 pm

makuranososhi wrote:
In much of pirate society, there was more democracy and reliance on group mentality than the rigid conformist practices of the navies, where structure and position were institutionalized and protected.
Sorry, but democracy and group mentality are not remotely the same thing and are not truly compatible. Group mentality might PRETEND to be democratic, but it is absolutely not. It is a dictatorship, populated by people too stupid to realize that they are being lead, let alone mislead.


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makuranososhi
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19 Sep 2008, 3:13 pm

Tahitiii wrote:
makuranososhi wrote:
In much of pirate society, there was more democracy and reliance on group mentality than the rigid conformist practices of the navies, where structure and position were institutionalized and protected.
Sorry, but democracy and group mentality are not remotely the same thing and are not truly compatible. Group mentality might PRETEND to be democratic, but it is absolutely not. It is a dictatorship, populated by people too stupid to realize that they are being lead, let alone mislead.


*sigh* Am having trouble today with erroneous assertions. A group mentality, in the context being used, is the implementation of the will of the masses. Sorry you've misunderstood and that I have been unclear. Next time, a question might serve better to clarify.


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Prof_Pretorius
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19 Sep 2008, 3:56 pm

Arrrgghh, First Mate Pretorius takes a long puff on his clay pipe and lifts a mug of grog to toast this thread ! !!


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Tahitiii
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19 Sep 2008, 3:56 pm

makuranososhi wrote:
Sorry you've misunderstood and that I have been unclear.
We understood each other. We just don't agree.

But you're still Ok.
Anyone who would vote for Cthulhu is fine by me.
(I'm almost ready to flip a coin between Obama and Cthulhu.
Gimme another week or so.)


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Tahitiii
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19 Sep 2008, 4:10 pm

Prof_Pretorius wrote:
Arrrgghh, First Mate Pretorius takes a long puff on his clay pipe and lifts a mug of grog to toast this thread ! !!
On second thought, makuranososhi --

Stand and fight, you mangy cur! Admit that I am right, or die!

(I'm not sure that I would make a good pirate. Am I holding the sword appropriately?
Is this pose menacing enough? That "swish" sound the sword makes is pretty cool.
Let me do that again...)



Last edited by Tahitiii on 19 Sep 2008, 4:10 pm, edited 1 time in total.

makuranososhi
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19 Sep 2008, 4:10 pm

Tahitiii wrote:
makuranososhi wrote:
Sorry you've misunderstood and that I have been unclear.
We understood each other. We just don't agree.

But you're still Ok.
Anyone who would vote for Cthulhu is fine by me.
(I'm almost ready to flip a coin between Obama and Cthulhu.
Gimme another week or so.)


If they were running mates, it would be no question for me! *grin* I am completely ok with not being in agreement. I use frequent qualifiers in my speech/writing, and it is troublesome to me when other speak in flat and inclusive terms.


M.

[edit] I am laughing my fool ass off right now. [/edit]


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Last edited by makuranososhi on 19 Sep 2008, 4:12 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Tim_Tex
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19 Sep 2008, 4:11 pm

I am not sure, but I guess it's possible.


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NeantHumain
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19 Sep 2008, 5:34 pm

Piracy on the high seas required more a flagrant disregard of social rules than the kind of obliviousness seen in aspies. In addition to having contempt for authority, they could be vicious, cruel, and outright murderous to the crew of ships and citizens of ports they attacked. They were also quite motivated by greed and the kind of thrill that comes from living that lifestyle. It isn't the kind of thing that would appeal to many aspies, but it probably did attract many people with antisocial personality disorder.



Followthereaper90
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19 Sep 2008, 6:30 pm

pirates were first people hired to attac in certain ships but later they turned against everyone for money


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Tahitiii
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19 Sep 2008, 6:33 pm

NeantHumain wrote:
Piracy on the high seas required more a flagrant disregard of social rules...
Piracy in modern government requireS more a flagrant disregard of social rules than the kind of obliviousness seen in aspies. In addition to having contempt for authority, they could be vicious, cruel, and outright murderous to their own citizens, along with the other countries and ports they attack. They Are also quite motivated by greed and the kind of thrill that comes from living that lifestyle. It isn't the kind of thing that would appeal to many Aspies, but it probably does attract many people with antisocial personality disorder.

So, you're saying that I can't be a pirate after all? Shucks, I was getting into it. ("Swish!")



9CatMom
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19 Sep 2008, 7:32 pm

They often had cats on their ships. Most were large, black cats. Since people with AS share many traits in common with cats, it's a good possibility.



Electric_Kite
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19 Sep 2008, 7:50 pm

See Between The Devil and the Deep Blue Sea and Villains of All Nations by Marcus Rediker, an historian at the University of Pittsburgh. The first book is a more general early-modern period Anglo-American maritime history focused on the experiences of common sailors, the second is an exapansion of the first one's chapter about pirates of that period. They're lots of fun to read.

Inventor is largely correct. Or at least, largely consistant with what Rediker says is true. There were no standardized articles, though, every crew created their own. They did consistantly make a number of the same provisions -- equality among the crew, the captain being elected by the crew and having no special rights to better food or quarters and having decision-making powers only in battle or fleeing, everybody voting on other decisions, profits from the venture being divided up by shares (as was done on medieval ships, wage-labour was a bit of an innovation at the time, with sailors being among the first to be treated that way) and various positions on the ship getting two, one, or a half share, plus provisions made to set some aside for guys who got maimed and couldn't sail any more. This stuff was obviously contrived by the men to protect themselves against abuses that they'd all experienced -- sailor's wages were very low, the work very difficult and dangerous, pensions non-existant, and sea-captains even in merchant vessels had ridiculous powers, they could legally execute seamen without trial.

The articles sometimes had lots of other stuff in them, including silly things like, "You must be at least this drunk to vote." You had to sign them, which meant that you'd get hanged if anybody in authority found the document. Often they signed them in a funny pattern, with everybody's signature radiating out from a central circle, so nobody could tell who signed it first. ("And we are all equally guilty.")

I understand that there's a complete lack of any historical record of 'walking the plank.'

Normal sort of way to become a pirate: One ship has a particularly nasty captain or a particularly volitile crew-member. They mutiny, kill their officers, and elect some crew-member captain. Now they are criminals and cannot take the ship's cargo to port to trade it without risking getting hanged, so they attack other ships to get supplies and fencable goods. When they took another ship, they'd ask its crew if anybody wanted to join them. They'd also ask after the conduct of that ship's officers, and kill them if crewmembers said they were bad. If the ship had 'good' officers they'd usually just take cargo and supplies out of it and let it go, otherwise they tended to take everything and then set it on fire. Most pirates of the 'Golden Age of Piracy' (1716-1726, plus less dramatic decades on either end) became pirates by having their ship attacked by pirates. There are numerous ships' books records of sailors getting flogged for remarking that they wished pirates would show up so they could join them. Pirates liked to overcrowd their ships, so that the pirate ship would have 80 or so guys on it when merchant ships often had less than twenty. That way the pirates didn't have to do as much work per person. Also, they could just raise their scary black flag, climb up into the rigging and howl and wave cutlasses and moon the other ship, scaring the heck out of them and impressing upon them how outnumbered they were, so they'd just surrender without a fight.

It's a pity that the famous historical pirates were all former privateers who turned pirate when they lost their letters of marque, and were not representative of the group. William Fly is much more interesting.

I really doubt they were aspies. They were much too intensely social and inconsistant.



Prof_Pretorius
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19 Sep 2008, 8:32 pm

Tahitiii wrote:
Prof_Pretorius wrote:
Arrrgghh, First Mate Pretorius takes a long puff on his clay pipe and lifts a mug of grog to toast this thread ! !!
On second thought, makuranososhi --

Stand and fight, you mangy cur! Admit that I am right, or die!

(I'm not sure that I would make a good pirate. Am I holding the sword appropriately?
Is this pose menacing enough? That "swish" sound the sword makes is pretty cool.
Let me do that again...)


I refuse to fight any man what doesn't know how to hold his sword correctly ! !
Have a cuppa grog, and join in the sing-along ! !!

Yo Ho Me Hearties, Yo Ho ! !! !


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20 Sep 2008, 10:25 am

Come on I could be a pirate, it is possible that there were some, now all I need to do is eat cursed fruit and anoy some Navy people.
Image


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