What is it like to have "treatment"?

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I am not interested in learning to lie and cheat. Those are immoral disgusting behaviors. I don't want to be like all the rotten black-hearted devious monsters I've met. All I want is to be able to blast the monsters, when they illegally discriminate, out of my orbit so they won't interfere with my job.

When I go back to work I'll wear spy equipment that will record everything. I'll have the evidence and I'll nail the bastards.

Sometimes, even if you are born with such a talent, unless you can connect well with others, they become jealous and sometimes try to sabotage and undermine your talent so that you no longer have the desire of confidence to use it or develop it.

Yes, that's why I said you have to have a very sought-after talent, not a lot of talent. Little competition.

donhz, you misquoted me, and that's forbidden on message boards. I never wrote that.

So, basically they try to "teach" you to lie and cheat and steal, and this is somehow helpful. That's the best they can do? If I were going to do that, I'd have figured it out for myself. I refuse to play along with what little I understand, but the main thing is I can't do it. It's not about training or understanding or motivation or willingness to cooperate. It's about my inability to grow a pair of wings. It's just not gonna happen.

Er....Special ed?


Maybe therapy, i dunno, I did SPED for a little bit though, and it helped............I think.

i'm late diagnosis, so this will only apply to other late dx's.

a psychologist i saw recently said she could partially treat me by discussing Your Childhood and The Past. she said this would be Really Helpful
i have to say i think this is just re-arranging the deck chairs on the titanic; i have no social life, cant bear to go out, hate noise etc; my life is a disaster,and im suicidal a lot. she thought it would help me to discuss sitting in front of my uneaten lunch each day at school etc etc. its not really a pressing issue, is it?

i see the point a tiny amount, but id much rather discucss why i go mad with noise or something, rather than My Life in the 1970s. i think i managed to make a polite face rather than an 'are you mental????' expression.

i also think its missing the point about a/s- by now, i have such set patterns of thought about things, that however much i discuss the past, it makes little or no difference- i was completly impervious to cbt, and got really annoyed by it.

ive heard nothing since.

I never got no treatment or special ed. I got sent to the school psychologists office a few times and thats it.
When i was in grade 6 i taught myself the alphabet and to the read the time. I never read books. I never learnt times table i think they called it. The only thing they made me practice was saying Th instead of using an F but that confused me because i started saying Th for F words and also they noticed i didnt know number of how to write or say them went it got into thousands. I have a high average IQ but also a learning disability whcih was never noticed. I was just being slack or lazy so i didnt never go in no special ed classes. I excelled at creative writing, art and sport though.

I've met an incredibly socially adept person who didn't lie or cheat at all.
She just smoothed over things to ease her dealings with other people, so as not to offend them.
People were very important in her life and she wanted to befriend as many as she could (in a deep and mutually understanding way as possible).

She was honest, but in a kind respectful way.
She listened to people and what they had to say.
She said things that needed to be said though and the truth.
If the truth hurt other people, she'd try and comfort them.

It's hard to explain, but she was kind, but fair with clear boundaries and a very mature person too.

Genuinely kind and honest people like her are very rare though.

Her brain must be running on a completely different operating system to what I'm running on.

She always focussed on people first and tasks second, which seemed a bit strange to me a first.

Last edited by AmberEyes on 03 Dec 2008, 10:14 am, edited 2 times in total.

That's exactly why you have to lie and cheat. You still think that people follow the rules. If you come up with evidence, they'll just fabricate some to counter yours or frame you for some workplace crime.

Lying and cheating are a kind of passive aggressive behavior that allows you to avoid a bad outcome without getting into an escalating battle.

And "all those rotten black-hearted devious monsters" would apply to just about everyone. All NTs lie and cheat, in one way or another, to either get ahead (make themselves look better than they are) or to cover up their problems and mistakes (avoid punishment).

Look at all the stuff happening on Wall Street. That stuff has been building for years and people have been publicly publishing articles for at least 4 years explaining what would go wrong if the problems weren't stopped. How many people in Washington DC, the community of economists, Wall Street, business and the investors out there, were on the side of "evil"? (Answer: tens of thousands).

The grownup world of NTs is just like a big junior high school playground. If the teachers aren't looking, a lot of bad stuff happens as well as a lot of fun stuff. NTs in particular, have a hard time telling the difference when what they are doing is harmless corner cutting and white lies that don't hurt anyone, and when what they are doing is really a bad thing with bad consequences for someone. When they do get caught red-handed at something, you can bet that you will get burned if you can't weasel out of it.

The most important thing I want to learn is how to lie and cheat. I'll have a hard time going back out there until I do.

I've wondered about that a lot. I spend a lot of time lost in my own thoughts and that's one of them. You can have a sought-after talent and still be sabotaged by others and never receive the full benefits of possessing such a unique gift.
If you have such a talent in your childhood and are surrounded by unsupportive, jealous people who wish they had the talent or believe it isn't a useful talent or isn't practical, they will try to "program" you out of that talent and "reprogrammed" into something you really despise. They don't seem to mind if you really despise it if it's something they want you to do for whatever reason (maybe the main reason is they think it brings you misery and leaves you in a perpetual state of mind numbing boredom and understimulation).
So, it doesn't always matter if you have a much sought-after talent unless you are allowed to develop the talent, and are also allowed to experience positive reinforcement and feedback about it. If the talent is allowed to flourish in childhood, it can offset many obstacles in adulthood, true.

Last edited by ooOoOoOAnaOoOoOoo on 03 Dec 2008, 10:21 am, edited 1 time in total.

Not the NT person I knew (see above).
And she probably was the most NT person I've ever known, close to perfect NT actually.

She always admitted her mistakes and told the truth, but she had the self confidence and strength of character to do this.

Some of them really aren't that bad, honestly.
That's what she was trying to tell me.
She was saying that most people were "good at heart" and that I was unnecessarily afraid of people and I perhaps misinterpreted their actions sometimes.

I've met people like that, Ambereyes. They're rare indeed, and they do say the king is nude if it need be said. But they're so good at ToM that people don't get offended by them.

i've rarely encountered so much insight and wisdom in one place.
this thread is a "Survival Guide for Aspies" and you people are awesome!

i'm very bitter at having been rejected practically since birth because i was different and no one really made an effort to give me a break or understand where i was coming from. i've indulged in no small amount of self pity. but i've also endeavored to be strong, practical, responsible, and take good care of myself. and my cats. and my father who recently passed away.

all my life i've pondered something:
if i were on a planet where there was no one like me, would i be capable of being true to myself? and where would i draw the line.....i mean, i would prefer to survive, but when would it become appropriate to find an exit and leave?..to refuse to play nicely with others, even if it meant i wouldn't survive?

i realize my life would be a whole lot easier if i learned to lie and cheat and do things that make me miserable. the problem is i'm damned if i do and damned if i don't. the rules are written so that i always lose no matter what i do. the rules ensure i will always be miserable--no matter how i play the game. my only real choice is to completely reject the game...to get as far away from it as possible. because the game was never intended to include people like me. in fact the game wants people like me to perish.

because i was a very precocious child, i came to that conclusion before i was 5. so i pretty much stopped trying to please "them" or make my life easier if it meant sacrificing my integrity. my integrity is all i have. "they" can't take it from me and i refuse to give it away.

for me, the solution to finding my way through the maze was to create a barrier between me and "the game players" who only pretend to play by the rules anyway. lying and cheating is written into the rules. it's ok. just don't get caught, etc.... the game and its players were going to insist on killing my spirit. i wasn't going to allow that.

if learning how to lie and cheat is necessary for survival, count me out. i quit. i won't play. their loss. if that's the way it must be, so be it.

I'm late diagnosis, too. And from what I've seen, psychologists are worthless. They can't give drugs (not that I need any for what ails me) and they can't make a legal diagnosis. By now, I've re-hashed my childhood enough times. I am not going to do it again for the entertainment of one more useless quack.

Good one. I think I'll use it.

I'm too far past that. I don't even try any more. Yes, they are crazy.


Your post sounds almost like me.
I still say we should start our own little community somewhere.

From what she was saying, she seemed to be saying that it took a lot of energy for her to figure me out. Given that she was practically a social genius, that is extreme.

She said that I didn't let other people figure me out. Part of that I believe is a defense mechanism, I didn't want to tell them about my past or my assessment. I wanted to present this facade of a competent academic which was so convincing that I believed it for years. I was also probably blissfully oblivious that I had to do things for people to figure me out. I have been encouraged by my family not to get overly involved in other people's problems and to "mind my own business".

Around me, she became very nervous, almost as if she was desperately trying to channel all her energies into understanding me, but not quite succeeding.

This was someone who was a people expert, but she admitted she was "stumped" by me. A very brave thing and honest thing to have said given that I'm usually so easily offended.

I wish I hadn't lost contact with her, but I knew she couldn't solve all my problems. I think I did the right thing by leaving though.

I hope I meet someone like her again even if I have to search for the rest of my life. I think that there is a trade off of abilities though. She had great social skills, but as her personal (object) organisation and finding skills, she was a little scatterbrained. No one can be good at everything though.