Maxine Aston and other researchers

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Point taken and i agree with you on that. I was referring to some other threads as well as this one, where there was some rather critical posts on precisely what I mention....

AndriaRose, thats really interesting! That sort of 'sickly sweet honey' presence is common in the psychotherapeutic world. It impresses NT's. It would not impress me as to see all those books, it would make me wonder what she's hiding. How can anybody be a serious psychologist if they have so little insight into the machinations of their own ego?

I notice she specifies "undiagnosed Aspergers" as being the trigger to Cass Syndrome. I wonder how many cases she's studied because my experience, and several others that I've read on WP, is quite different. In these cases, the relationship has gone downhill maybe a year or two AFTER diagnosis! Of course the relationship will have had problems before diagnosis, but these worsen after diagnoses. AS provides a handy escape clause for someone thinking of moving on yet not wanting to damage their status as a 'good' person in the herd. "It's not anybody's fault, I can't be with them because they have this *awful* disability." A disability that prevents us pandering to someone elses precious-ness 24/7.

Also, as some have said, the list of symptoms (depression etc) could be a checklist for those with AS as well as NT. She mentions NT partners suffering because AS partners deny their AS. I don't believe this is the norm. For many of us it's the other way around. We think we have it first, but nobody will believe us. I've read many, many posts from young people to past middle age who have not been believed by those close to them.

Here's the real problem that needs to be researched: Take 2 people in a relationship. If person B is not fulfilling person A's needs, who is causing the problems? Maxine Ashton appears to home straight in on B. She is neglecting to consider that person A may be overly needy, narcissistic, bi-poplar, has an unreasonable sense of entitlement or any number of dysfunctional traits. These traits are common enough, MORE common than AS. There may not be any objective way of defining what is causing the relationship problems. It is all a subjective judgement, hence open to manipulation to prove any result you could care to think of.

And then there's a gender difference. I'll bet in 90% of cases, it's a woman complaining that her man is not fulfilling her emotional needs. In general males are less emotionally needy. Just the way it is. I think she's seeing pathology where there really is just human nature and standard gender differences.

I wonder how many unhappily married spouses will start blaming marital problems on undiagnosed AS if Aston's books become Men Are From Mars....like best sellers?
In the US fifty percent of marriages end in divorce. They will start sighting AS as a possible reason in divorce hearings after reading that book. "We don't get along it must be because one of us has AS"
So far, AS isn't completely mainstreamed. I wonder what would happen if it were constantly in the public eye?

The whole Cassandra issue is made up I believe, invented by Maxine herself! Please someone correct me if I am wrong. Maxine never completed her PhD did she? Maybe someone could put me straight on that if I have got it wrong? Apologies in advance...........if I am wrong

Sorry Maxine, sorry everyone else, but it is all a complete load of .................. IN MY OPINION!!

I do wish everyone would stop blaming Aspergers Syndrome, ADHD, Autism for anything unacceptable ...........................anyone out there heard of ODD?? That is what muddies the water. Many with Aspergers syndrome, ADHD, Autism etc DON'T HAVE ODD.........and are as gentle as kittens. I just wish Oppositional Defiance Disorder, Conduct Disorder, damaged childhood, depression etc were taken into consideration too? Please

Interesting....this is exactly the impression I had of her when I was reading the book....it had a tone of trying to be "politically correct", but I had the feeling that she doesn´t really like people with AS. (Gee, I guess I´m good at "reading between the lines")

My overall feeling was that she had very little awareness or understanding with what´s really going on internally with Asperger´s Syndrome. All of her knowledge seems to be through outside observation, and I don´t feel she has the same understanding- (dare I use the word "empathy"?)- that someone like Tony Attwood has. Moreover, I felt that her book was geared towards NTs; for example, there was an instance where a wife was very upset that her husband interrupted a conversation because he wanted to make an important point before the topic changed. Well, she explained that he had no "theory of mind", blah blah blah...but she never really explained what he did that was so wrong, not in a way that I could understand it. She always took the NT viewpoint in these matters. There were many points she made about Asperger´s Syndrome, which I actually wanted to argue with her about! Too long to get into here. But I found a lot of stereotypes in her writing.

As for this Cassandra Complex- keep in mind that she is writing only about what she observes, i.e. couples who need therapy due to marital problems. I´m sure there are quite a few relationships where there are problems between the people, due to AS and lack of theory of mind in BOTH partners. (I´ve certainly had this problem). However, there are also many successful marriages and relationships where 1 partner has AS, which she doesn´t mention; she may not even see them, as I´m sure only people in trouble come to her. So, she is writing about a very one-sided picture. (As well as seeing most things from a very one sided NT perspective).

I have heard that Maxine is currently doing a PhD but I have not been able to find out the name of her supervisor or the name of the university.

I have politely e-mailed her to allow her to explain her point of view but she has not chosen to explain her point of view. She might be busy with her work, but I hold the view that if she is to be a serious scholar then she needs to reply.

I have a PhD and I got mine at a real university and not off the "back of a cornflake packet". I had to work hard to get mine, I hold a view that the standard of the PhD is always under threat. But I can tell you that one of the requirements for a PhD is a level of academic maturity.

It is hard to explain what a PhD is, but it is easy to say what it is not.

A PhD is not a long service award.
A PhD is not a gong you give a good friend.
A PhD is not easy.
A PhD is not given for just working hard, you need to produce something of note.

In the world of science, it is sadly the case that if you do real work (not plodding work which is just repeating existing work) that you will see and read things written by people who have different opinons to you. As a mature scientist you have to be ready to accept the freedom of thought that you and other people have, and to be willing to discuss your work with them.

Also you should be ready to defend your ideas by being willing to discuss them with other scientists, and you should publish your thoughts and findings in academic journals.

Maxine has not been willing to discuss her theories on AS with me, and I have never seen any papers by Maxine in the academic literature.

Please if anyone who has details for any papers which I have missed is reading then do PM me with the journal name, year, volume and page number. I look forward to seeing Maxine’s ideas being discussed in the academic journals.

you do realise this diagnosis ISN'T OFFICIAL?! maxine is not a doctor, and as a counsellor, she is not even BACP approved...from her website: "Maxine is not offering a clinical diagnosis that will appear on your medical records."...looks like you wasted alot of money...i have heard horror stories about her treatment of asperger's patients...in one case, simply telling one of them something along the lines of "stop being weird"...that's not useful! (not an actual quote, this is simply the impression she gave)

...and this CADD is the nail in the coffin, it's simply a gimmick so that abusive NT wives can feel less bad about their breakup, here are some statistics quoted from a previous thread..."Aston's own writings indicate that 50% of the NT women in her ... group ... have been physically violent to their AS partners. She also catalogs much screaming, throwing of plates, withdrawal - all of which she managed to blame on the AS partner, rather than the NT perpetrator of such behaviors."

I am in an AS/NT relationship, and am very loving, almost clingy! i do everything i can for my girl and see her often...this week im planning valentines day, a trip to the botanical gardens and a nice meal out ^.^ and this CADD disorder upsets me as it paints a picture of AS being unable to love, cold an emotionless...that sounds like a sociopath, not an aspie.

there is no doubt that this woman is a neurobigot, and someone out to get as much money as she can out of our neurological leanings...

previous thread: http://www.wrongplanet.net/postt80733.html
article on CADD: http://autisticbfh.blogspot.com/2008/09 ... -scam.html

if anyone has appointments set up with maxine i suggest that you don't comment about her on wrongplanet. The counselling company who refers AS people to her, have been reading our posts, saw us as some kind of lynch mob, and then refused to let me see any other counsellor (i had asked for another after what i read about maxine)...they said that their company was coming under disrepute and wouldn't let me have another counsellor as I MIGHT BE A RISK!

if they're really worried about disrepute then maybe they shouldn't have formed a partnership with a non peer-reviewed non BACP counsellor!

opinions expressed here are Xanderbeanz' own and are not neccesarily those of wrongplanet.com

You should re-title the thread "Maxine Aston and other nutjobs". She doesn't deserve to be called a researcher.

It was enough for my university to get me the help I needed. If I were to have a clinical diagnosis, it would have the potential to cause serious problems, as I am from the US and still covered under US medical insurance. Most people assessed through universities are only given a 'diagnosis' by a counselor anyway (if it had been a few years since my assessment, I would have had to go through this process). If I had a real choice, I may have gone somewhere else, but the NHS treated me about as horribly as they possibly could have (I've already posted about this).

Also, not to stick up for her, but she is on the BACP website and has supposedly contributed to their literature.

yeah, there's a difference between a member of the BACP, and being BACP accredited, sorry i didn't clear that up. x

There's an Asperger's society in Ireland that had a webpage about Asperger's and marriage, which was quite offensive - it was written for NT wives, as if AS men could not read, and at the end of the article it recommended divorce. It was written by Maxine Aston (possibly infringing copyright).

The webpage caused allot of offense to AS adults, especially given that the society purported to help people with Asperger's, instead that page clearly undermined equality and understanding of AS adults. After talking to society on the phone, I'm told they to removed the page later the same day.

HEAR HEAR..........................Quite agree. I would be interested in knowing how she obtained her MSc? Was it a failed PhD and she picked up whatever modular credits to get a MSc? Sorry if I am doing her down, but on her website for ages it said she was a PhD candidate and then NO reference to it!

DIAGNOSED BY ASTON??? WTF!???? Sorry to be crude BUT I am STAGGERED. That is clearly not allowed ............unless she is DISCO trained....................IS SHE?? Anyone know??


To add.
These comments are my personal opinion and should be read as such. Thank you.

I would love to know what sort of risk they think Xanderbeanz is ?

I hold the view that mental health professionals should be able to ply their trade in safety and under reasonable conditions. But the general public needs to be protected from poor quality health care.

I think that it is unreasonable for a health worker who conducts research which leads to some change in the way that people are diagnosed or treated to expect to be protected from reasonable debate and criticism of their work. The day we accept the untested word of a lone "almighty healer" as the ultimate answer to life the universe and everything, then we are stepping onto a very slippery slope which may well lead into the abyss.

I hold the view that advances in medicine should be considered in the cold light of day by academics, scientists and medical doctors before they are judged as being either worthy new additions to modern medicine or fit only for filing in the circular filing cabinet on the floor (waste paper basket).

Me too, I would love to know why anyone would be classed as a risk!

Woodpecker, I respectfully agree with all you are saying. I would add that reasonable debate and criticism is healthy. One of the most worrying aspects of research appears to be 'who checks the checkers'? Lots of academic research out there that quite honestly beggars belief. Trying to sift through it all is nothing short of a nightmare but a task that I can assure you is being done.

I myself am deep on the spectrum and proud of it. Where would the world be without us! No systems like we have now and probably no internet, actually I correct that, for sure without the internet! So now we can all form communities in the comfort of our own homes behind a keyboard..............(so much better eh! Social events are just too much like hard work!). We can discuss the newest research, we can voice our opinion AT LAST. And guess what, we are surprising everyone! Yes those on the Autistic Spectrum do have BRAINS!! And now we are able to meet together to share and care. Wonderful.

So researchers (I am one!), professionals and academics beware, we are watching and reading. With the added advantage of our attention to detail and perseveration we are able to quite clearly see when we are being taken for a ride? Or are we? Some of us sadly still allow ourselves to be taken in by those who WE THINK know more. From experience no one knows the spectrum better than someone on it!

I believe that to consult Maxine Aston for example is approx £400 including a report. There are other charges if you have a mind to pay them. A friend of mine has attended and told me that her 'diagnosis' was taken as read by General Practitioners and Consultants. My friend went purely to get a Dx, SHE GOT IT on the spot. Told on the day, no messing. Just thought you may like to know!

Thanks, I have heard that great minds think alike.

I think that a modified version of the Nuremberg code should be used as a gold standard against which we judge medical research.

http://ohsr.od.nih.gov/guidelines/nuremberg.html

My understanding of clause two is that the research has to be well planned and not of a random type.

Maxine through her failure to publish in a peer reviewed journal does not make the scientific reasoning behind her work clear. If she was to publish her work in a paper which explains how she did the work, then if she was able to show that the work was well planed and had good methodology then I would be perfectly willing to report such a finding to the wrong planet community.



I think that the problem you mention is that peer review is not perfect, but it is the best system we have found so far. So I think we should continue with it.

gutted...i got an actual legitimate diagnosis from a psychologist and i didn't have to pay a thing XD