AS vs Intelligence

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I think I may need to clarify the understanding of intelligence that I am using for this discussion. From what I have read elsewhere, talented people are people who are born with above average abilities. Gifted people are those who's brains are naturally better at being rewired; that is, they solve problems and learn much faster than average.

For this discussion, I was going along the lines of intelligence being the "level" of giftedness one has; that is, the ability to problem solve and learn faster, and thus to rewire the brain more effectively.

If one can generally solve problems and learn more quickly than average, one would possibly have an improved ability to compensate for areas of ability where intuition is lacking (such as nonverbal cues in AS). And I don't mean learning to be intuitive, just learning to compensate for the lack of intuition.

What about high-IQ, low-processing-speed people?

I am not "gifted" at all, have a low/average IQ and am considered pretty damned stupid by most. Yet, those same people would never know I was diagnosed. I am very social, afable and despite my on-line persona a relatively pleasant person.

I'm not an expert on IQ; however, I seem to recall time limits on most, if not all, questions. If that's what you mean.

I am also not sure if slow processing refers to solving a problem in the moment, or if it refers to the time it takes to learn something. In any case, as I stated in my last post, some people learn, process, and problem solve quickly, and have the ability to improve their comprehension much more readily than average; I thought this is generally what is thought of as IQ, and on what the term gifted is based.

I understand there are many intelligences, but I am referring to speed of learning, comprehension, and problem solving... I suppose it may be the classic IQ, and not very politically correct at this point to call that intelligence, but it does exist.

IQ is measured in different areas, and someone's verbal problem solving might not be as good as their nonverbal problem solving etc. I've wondered since I learned of the autism spectrum, why some people like Temple Grandin (who evidently has a high IQ), have somehow found enough ways around the difficulties they face to behaviorally go from an appearance of classic autism to Asperger's. Temple herself has commented on this as have other writers. Some feel that innate problem solving ability (a.k.a. IQ) is a significant factor in being able to effectively compensate.

An example of this opinion comes from Linda Kreger Silverman in her book Upside-Down Brilliance: The Visual Spatial Learner. When she published this in 2002, she was concentrating on the paradigm of learning disabilities, but there is much crossover between visual-spatial learning and the autism spectrum. Here's a quote:

"Learning disabilities can be very difficult to detect in extremely bright individuals. This is because more abstract reasoning ability is available to compensate for weaknesses. When there is injury or less efficiency in the part of the brain that normally controls a function, compensation enables another part of the brain to take over the function. The more brain power, the greater the potential for compensation. This is good news and bad news. The good news is that learning disabilities can be more easily “overcome” or worked around when a person is smart enough to use other strategies to achieve desired goals. The bad news is that compensation makes it nearly impossible to diagnose the full extent of a disability. So if people can compensate for disabilities, why is it important to diagnose them? Because compensation is unstable. Sometimes it works, and sometimes it doesn’t.

Compensation breaks down when you’re stressed, tired, ill, injured, anxious, or encountering new situations. When compensation works, you feel like an imposter, and when it fails, you feel incompetent. Am I smart or am I stupid? Not a great basis for building self-esteem or setting high aspirations (pp. 169-170)."

I think it is so interesting that there is such an attempt to NOT place the autism spectrum label on "gifted" children, who, in practical terms have the same difficulties as those whose IQs don't test as high. "She's not autistic, she's just gifted!" At the same time, I wonder how helpful it is to say that IQ has (next to) nothing to do with how an individual copes with the unique function of their brain.

Z

Edit: grammar

Last edited by Zonder on 31 Jan 2009, 8:21 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Didn´t I read somewhere that there is such a thing as "social intelligence"? Which is different from other forms of intelligence. Even among the NT population, there are varying levels of social skills. A lot of it may also have to do with observation and a certain social awareness. It would make sense that this would fluctuate in the autistic community as well. I think there are different forms of intelligence- analytical intelligence, creative intelligence, "common sense", etc. People have different degrees of each one, so it´s kind of hard to use "intelligence" as a blanket term. There are some people who are highly intelligent, but socially clueless.

When tested as a 40 year old adult, my processing speed measured 28 points below my performance IQ on the Wechsler IQ test. That is nearly two standard deviations. And my working memory was even lower. Processing speed is measured differently than IQ, you can have a very low processing speed and still have a very high IQ. You just can't solve problems as fast, and probably don't do very well on timed tests. It's "brain capacity" vrs. "brain speed."

Z

This thread has been very interesting to me. And thanks Zander for your perspective, the quote in your previous post is almost exactly along the lines I have been thinking.

You're welcome, Mixtli. The Silverman book is out of print, but a great read if you can get your hands on a copy.

Z

no matter the condition, it's stupidity vs. intelligence...

That being said, it might be possible that the possession of intelligence can help you mask better; I'm known as a weird guy with a strange sense of humor, but many people don't know (or don't care).

You might be more "gifted" than you think, NocturnalQuilter. I've seen your work in a photo or two that you posted, and you appear to have high visual-spatial abilities. That's more right-brain than verbal-sequential left-brain. Most schools and schoolwork are geared towards verbal-sequential. If you're visual right-brained (on IQ tests called nonverbal or performance), you might not have done very well in much of school or on standardized tests, even if you have a brilliant non-verbal IQ. I was shocked how high my non-verbal IQ tested as an adult (I'd never been tested before), because I struggled so much in school and many of my academic test scores were so low.

Z

Are you aware of any valid online tests?

There are several of the raven online tests which are excellent for right brained people and they are accurate and adjusted for the takers age range which makes them well suited for adults. I posted some links in some thread but can't find it which is typical.

What first got me thinking about the IQ thing was taking some online tests (that I followed up with official tests - I'm a geek for officialness). Those that seemed to have a good visual component were "multiple intelligences" tests. I had a perfect score on one of the visual-spatial sections, that was "officially" validated later (when I paid for an IQ evaluation with a psychologist). The online tests can be good indicators of general areas to further explore.

Google "multiple intelligences test" and you'll find some. I've heard of the Raven tests as well, garyww, but didn't take any of those. They're worth a shot.

Z

my Asperger's is not fighting my intelligence