Playing the Autism Card May Be Harmful to Humanity

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This is really a good question, and just now I realized I did not answer it...Actually some things cannot be said directly for various reasons, or are better pointed at because that allows more flexibility for potential insight, but how about this? Using autism as an excuse for not facing oneself and ones psychological problems which are interwoven with ones inborn genetic makeup and then because of doing this, not trying to solve these problems the best one can may be harmful to humanity.....

One example of this would be blaming all or most of ones problems on the way one was born....some of it may be true, but a lot of these problems could be a result of general negative thinking such as seeing the glass as half empty rather than half full......this is just one example, but I think a pretty good one...if a person changes his point of view, then his whole world might be transformed....granted this is not so easy to do, especially if the pattern is deeply conditioned....

I am bad with walls of text at certain points in time. Also, why has it only been you commenting for a page or two behind this?
I find this odd.

If there's anything I've learned over the years, it's that human beings are often idiotic and self-centered, NT or not, myself included. Not all human beings are; plenty of them are quite the opposite, but these individuals are much rarer than the norm. I'm an aspie, and while that makes me different than most of the population, that neither makes me better nor worse. I like to think of myself as being better than other people, like many people do, but in truth I'm just as selfish and ignorant as everyone else. I can also be selfless and open-minded, like many people, but I don't consider those things to be dominant traits of mine.

Everyone is different, and you know what, I support that. NTs differ from one another, aspies differ from one another, and I think it would be nice if society were more accepting of uniqueness and individuality, rather than trying to get people to conform to a limited set of stereotypes. Unfortunately, the way human nature works, with people constantly imposing their views on others, and certain individuals gaining so much power that they gain the ability to write the rules, I can't see this happening any time soon.

I would love to see the neurodiversity movement take off the way things have for the gay rights movement, the African American civil rights movement, etc. The problem is, having an ASD isn't as "obvious" to many people as having a different color of skin, or being sexually attracted to your own gender. It will take a paradigm shift in human nature as a whole before people realize that we're all not "wired" the same mentally.

Hi. What about this post makes you "very happy?" Care to share?

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Quite honestly, though this thread was not designed with teenage readers in mind, I have no problem with a sincere teenager who is really interested in the questions raised participating here, if this is you, but some of the material is very complex. I was quite an intellectual when I was fourteen, but this kind of material would not have been interesting to me nor would I have had the level of concentration to delve into and ponder deeply in order to be able to understand the gist of what is being said about brain function. I do not think this material would even have been appropriate for me, but I realize this describes me and not necessarily anyone else of that age.

Here is a link to a message you wrote which describes yourself and your interests:
http://www.wrongplanet.net/postp5727981.html#5727981 I like t.v, too, and actually have eight t,v.s in my home, but only five of them hooked up right now. In fact before beginning to write this I was just watching this show, on MTV, 16 And Pregnant


Yes, anomalies can be interesting and even have an almost magnetic attraction, though magnetic is not quite the right word. They draw you in by curiosity Things that are different tend to stand out from the field and this attracts our attention, imo because noticing such things can help us survive. Perhaps that is why you are attracted here. Though recently the readership has been slowing down a bit, this thread still has a very high readership, the source of which I have been unable to trace except there is indication it is not a search engine anomaly. but real people, most of whom are members of WP, are actually reading it and studying and thinking about some of the material being presented here. I think there is a world of certain ideas involving language and brain function which can be a very alive land to wander into, rich with all kinds of magical creatures, food, and treasure, but perhaps this is just my imagination. In any case, in reading between the lines and even sometimes pausing and waiting there in order to consciously digest certain ideas, there is a possibility to hoe the ground and grow a productive crop, to plant seeds...

I am hoping people will not to speak and rattle on here unless they really have something to say in the nature of enquiry, and I think in general people are honoring this for the benefit of all of us, and most of the feedback I have received has been really interesting and helpful. Just because I may disagree with a certain idea does not mean that idea is not good. In fact some of the material I tend to disagree with is even better in that it helps me to see that something I am thinking may not make complete sense, so it is all a learning experience for me and I hope for others..

Do you believe everything every person has to say is equal to everything every other person has to say? This is obviously a rhetorical question, as I know you don't believe this. It is of subjective value which t.v. show is of interest to which person and what value they get out of it, based on their own previous context and what is interesting to them, and it will always be this way. Yet there must also be a common ground. I used to think I was the center of the universe and that my ideas and interests were the most important thing in the world. Well they were, to me, but obviously not to everyone else, so there was something I did not understand about being in the middle and yet still being myself.

In any case, what does it mean to you that something is odd? The way you phrased that does not have a good tone to it. Do you want everything to always be the same and follow the same pattern? Personally I am often attracted to people and things that others might consider odd.

Again, LifUlfur, WHY did this post make you very happy?

If you really do want to engage with people as you say you do in this message, http://www.wrongplanet.net/postp5939465.html#5939465 then this would be a good place to start.


This message by Willard is an amazing message to have on the very first page of my thread as it illustrates exactly what I am talking about, and LilUfur's response that it makes him very happy illustrates this even further

Oh boy....so basically Willard is implying that that all the problems he has had in his whole life are a result of congenital brain damage. That really makes no sense to me. Willard, if you had parents who discounted you your whole life and were insensitive in the way you are saying they were (which I do not doubt they really were) then surely to some degree these kind of parents shaped and affected your personal development, probably profoundly. Children are very sensitive and emotional pain does all kinds of things to people. You are saying that everyone abused you because you were born a certain way. It is obvious you are speaking in hyperbole...as there are some kind people in this world, and not every last person abuses someone who is having difficulty. So now are you going to say you are using hperbole because you are born this way? I think this is actually possible that a person could be born with a tendency for certain experiences to be very intense, but I also believe it is possible for such a person to learn to temper this tendency within himself, if it is pointed out and he sees he is doing it. Of course he may not want to. Is this because he is born that way? I am not sure. Is everything that is happening to a person happening because a person is born that way? This makes no sense to me. I think the way a person has learned to process data radically plays into the process. Is it his "fault" if he is processing data from a very negative and nihilistic angle? I would say, no. It is not a child's fault how he was born, the various conditions, some horrific, that were imposed upon him and the way he learned or did not learn to cope with life. However, the way a person thinks about his own experiences affects the way he processes data, and there are other ways to look at things besides blaming other people for ones own inability to adjust to life. There is horrible suffering in this world and it takes the development of a special skill set to be able to consciously process that. To think that only oneself and other autistic people are suffering and not the people who are bullying them or whatever is a major distortion. This does not mean that bullying and other kinds of cruel treatment are okay, but rather that ones own data processing plays into it, and if ones sees how this is working in oneself and affecting ones own responses, then the brain will change. The brain is not a fixed entity a person is born with, but actually very flexible.

I guess this is supposed to be consolation for Willard. I do have to wonder, though, where were all these nice people while he was being abused?

I have to wonder, Why must abused people have the burden of understanding (ends up being more like excusing) their abusers placed on their shoulders?

It looks to me like you are doing nothing here but invalidating the experiences of people who have been abused, by saying, What about those (absent) nice people? or What about how your abusers felt? This kind of stuff is invalidating and serves little other than to guilt-trip the victims, which is NOT OK. Abuse is NOT OK and, except in cases where mental illness has impaired the perpetrator's judgment, deserves not understanding from the victim (the hell?) but condemnation and punishment, along with forgiveness once the condemnation and punishment have been dealt.

littlebee,

Also, why are you trying to play therapist for Willard when you seem to be doing such bad listening/reading? You say, "However, the way a person thinks about his own experiences affects the way he processes data, and there are other ways to look at things besides blaming other people for ones own inability to adjust to life." What on God's green earth is this in response to? I've read Willard's post and the quoted statement appears to not respond to anything actually in Willard's post, but is placed as though it were a response.

Well. I find it very hard to communicate and explain my feelings but I shall try here.
It made me very happy because Willard explained and identified a problem that has been hurting me all my life as with me, like it was with him, I have been hurt throughout my life because of it and people telling me things such as 'it only holds you back if you allow it to', and I was glad to see this because I thought it would help other people like it helped me and also I liked it's message (bad with apostrophes, don't know if it fits there), "the idea that no, you shouldn't just act like it isn't there but you should try your hardest and if you don't succeed, this is OK because you tried your hardest" was very nice and it make sense to me as opposed to either of these arguments on their own. If you say I need to elaborate, I will try.

Beneficci, I am unable to respond to your posts any longer (though who knows, there may be an exception in the future if my skills develop) as I feel you are twisting my words and ideas around in such a way that is too convoluted for me to be able to sort out it out for the benefit of you, myself or anyone..This may be just because I simply do not have the capacity to be able do so. I recently did try to sommunicate with you on another thread and it did not go well, though I do intend to go back there sometime. The dialog ended with you accusing me of having a malevolent intent, so if you think and feel this then it does figure, I suppose, from your perspective, that you would want to fight me in any way you can. In any case, nothing is further from the truth. I have only the most benevolent intent and best wishes for the happiness and well being of autistic people including Willard.

littlebee wrote:

Were that indeed the case, then you could start by actually listening/reading for context his posts, instead of trying to cram them into this ill-defined theory you mention on this thread, as I mentioned in another post above.

Hi LifUlfur. Thank you so much for trying to communicate! This makes me very happy as I feel there is a potential that will be of great benefit to us all. Generally speaking the mind of a teenager is very alive as compared to the mind of an older person like myself. We do tend to get jaded:-) I cannot respond to the idea content now as I have to go someplace, but will think about what you wrote and write back as soon as I can.

Last edited by littlebee on 01 Mar 2014, 10:45 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Thank you.
And thank you again for being nice in your response.

Hi LifUlfur: You wrote:

Thanks for explaining this.Yes. from the perspective you have explained I can see how this message might make you feel happy. Being accepted as oneself, simply how one is, by others is a very important thing; however to me this message has a pronounced negative tone and under-conceptualized black and white thinking. For example, it seems to me Willard distorted my own comment in order to get his 'point' which seems to me more like a gripe across. If someone did that in ordinary life to an ordinary person it would probably give that person a bad feeling, as it would seem to that person Willard or whoever was not seeing him at all or listening to what he was saying, but rather trying to make a box and put the other person into it. He would probably not think, of this person as having congenital brain damage (Willard's own description of himself and seeming explanation for his sorrows). Ideally the other person probably should think something like this--(editing to add that I am actually not really sure he should)--and I am all for it, but probably he will not. Imo probably Willard should think something like this about the other person---that he is in some way damaged because he cannot understand Willard, and probably this is in some way true. You can see how this kind of thinking can go back and forth and not solve problems of human relationship unless someone actually changes his own thinking. There needs to be a new and different kind of thinking that starts with oneself, whoever oneself is.

A second problem is that though Willard's message did make you feel happy, and that is good, ultimately it is like taking a pill that will not keep working, as every time someone discounts you or is rude you cannot just go and get a pep talk from Willard, and even if you could, after the first time or so the material would begin to lose efficacy as it would no longer be new.

A third problem is thinking all of this stuff about Willard, oneself and other people and making messages of consensus, no matter how heartfelt, is really not going to change other people. It just isn't, which is sad. I think to interconnect with the world in such a way that has a possibility of actually changing the world would be very empowering, but I do not see that saying no one ever understood oneself and harping on that makes much of a difference. In fact to me it creates a tendency in the wrong direction.

Communication is good step in the right direction, though. Articulating the perceived issues and enquiring into them is a good beginning, if a person is even into enquiry rather than just perpetrating his own opinion. Personally I think personality problems are behind a lot of the issues many people on WP and everywhere, NT or autistic are having. It is just the nature of the beast of being a human in that many of us are raised by flawed, insensitive (originally sensitive) angry, guilt-tripping, lying, insecure, power-tripping part animal part human beings and an autistic person who is super sensitive is likely to be affected even more than the next person and develop all sorts of subsequent disorders which play into his own factoring of data..

I happened to see this message you wrote on another thread about people creating their own hell. http://www.wrongplanet.net/postp5941870.html#5941870 . To me that is a very astute and intuitive comment. An enquiring mind want to know--how do you reconcile this point of view with what you wrote about Willard's message making you very happy? I must say it is a wonderful and happy feeling to be accepted and I encourage each person to accept himself and do the best he can, but that message by Willard did not convey much to me about self acceptance. It seemed to me to be more talking about how other people did not accept him. I know some others here will disagree, but personally I think that kind of message is bad for teenagers. It sets a bad tone and encourages the wrong kind of thinking, even though he makes a valid point about other people discounting him and not accepting that certain activities were difficult for him to do, for whatever reason.

I read the message,
I don't understand the bit in italics.

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/reconcile

Willard seems to be blaming the hell he experienced on other people. Basically that is what he is saying---that other people made life hell for him because they did not understand that he had congenital brain damage and that was why he was not succeeding....and I am not really questioning that other people did indeed make life hell for him....but I also think hell is what you make it....there is a big insight in that comment or "We've created our own personal hell," which you also said in that message. How would a person equalize these two contradictory ideas? And to qualify--of course we all know that an innocent child is not responsible for some crazy people imposing all kinds of unrealistic expectations upon him. He is just a child doing his thing and trying to be happy, and imo it is his birthright to be able to be himself, express himself (without harming other people) and be happy. This question I asked may be difficult to answer, but worthwhile to think about and enquire into in your own personal private deep- think time and/or with other people.

Willard didn't say that other people made his life hell. littlebee you really seem to be absolutely unable to communicate WITH people on any level. You can never read someone's post and respond to it from any perspective other than how you can make it conform to the train wreck in your head. When people are really interested in inquiry, they read what the person said, and respond. To want to inquire means that one understands there are things outside one's own head. One who spends so much time speaking to herself is not inquiring.

Please don't feel you have to respond or even explain that you can't. We all understand that about you without saying.