Do you think that Elitism is a problem in the WP community?

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Should this thread be locked
Yes! 16%  16%  [ 8 ]
NO! 25%  25%  [ 13 ]
I am too Elite to deign to answer this question 29%  29%  [ 15 ]
no one would consider my feelings, anyway 4%  4%  [ 2 ]
none of the answers above express my opinion 25%  25%  [ 13 ]
Total votes : 51

timeisdead
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16 Mar 2009, 10:57 am

EvoVari wrote:
No elitism at any of the forums, just bad/arrogant behaviour. Guess we are not that different to NT folke after all.

Some AS puff their chest out and declare their IQ scores because it makes them feel good, can't see a problem with that attitude. Helps to cover up our 'Idiot' status in relation to social IQ(Intelligence).

Not sure how self esteem is a reason for a person with AS/autism acknowledging their impairments and challenges in life. How can a person adjust or modify aspects of their personality/behaviour to succeed or exist comfortably in life without first understanding their different thinking. Some of us need Govt assistance and professional counselling to cope and adjust in society.


Let me guess.... we should whine about how weak we are and never accomplish anything in the world? We should sit and complain how "horrible" our condition is and not mention the strengths... and then have the audacity to complain about they condescending treatment we receive! Stop being a whiny loser and actually do something!

I happen to be proud of my high verbal IQ and 4.0 index.
I'm tired of threads akin to this

Booo hooo I'm a whiny 37 year old virgin who doesn't know how to drive! I can't even make a 2.0 at school because I rock back and forth all day and stare at the flickering lights!! Feel sorry for me!! !



DeanFoley
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16 Mar 2009, 11:22 am

Why do people keep acting like acknowledging the limitations and challenges of our conditions means we sit and whine about what complete failures we are? That's a straw man, plain and simple.

No one is suggessting we can never accomplish anything and should all just hate ourselves. My personal view however is that AS impairs me more than it helps me, and I have little fear of losing any strengths if it were to dissapear. That doesn't mean I believe it makes me a damaged, inferior good-for-nothing braindead drooling zombie. It just means I see it more of a mountain to climb rather than a tool to climb the mountain.



timeisdead
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16 Mar 2009, 11:25 am

DeanFoley wrote:
Why do people keep acting like acknowledging the limitations and challenges of our conditions means we sit and whine about what complete failures we are? That's a straw man, plain and simple.

No one is suggessting we can never accomplish anything and should all just hate ourselves. My personal view however is that AS impairs me more than it helps me, and I have little fear of losing any strengths if it were to dissapear. That doesn't mean I believe it makes me a damaged, inferior good-for-nothing braindead drooling zombie. It just means I see it more of a mountain to climb rather than a tool to climb the mountain.


So we should acknowledge the weaknesses but not the strengths? That's one way to get people to treat us as if we are incapable of almost anything. I for one, do not want to be treated with condescension.



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16 Mar 2009, 12:00 pm

Some of us honestly believe it has no strengths to offer, or if they do exist, the weaknesses outweigh them. And then some of us believe it to be a more positive than negative thing, but not to the extent that some people do. (AKA we are super intelligent and together could make the most technologically advanced state on Earth is 7 years. Yes, real example, no, wasn't satire).

Just because we have a weakness does not mean people treat us as incapable of doing anything. Rather, we need help in certain tasks where that weakness affects us. AS people in education often recieve extra time in exams, for instance, to accomodate for slow clerical skills. They're not treating them as if they're too stupid to do the exam, or a lost cause. They just acknowledge that they have an extra obstacle to be removed.

Everyone has obstacles, some just more than others. Acknowledging their existance doesn't mean you believe them impassable.



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16 Mar 2009, 12:54 pm

'Braindead drooling zombies'. I like that analogy. Also the one about 'making the most technologically advanced state in history'. It's the extremes of the condition seen from various viewpoints that is so much fun.


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16 Mar 2009, 1:06 pm

DentArthurDent wrote:
ephemerella wrote:
I think that it really pays to structure programs for AS to help them get through school successfully, and be productive professional and skilled workers, especially. I also think that the kind of accommodations -- ensuring freedom from harassment, flexible hours and social tolerance regulations, are not expensive kinds of accommodations. Not like caring for the paralyzed or something like that.



Heck we have actually found some common ground.

Absolutely there needs to be programs in schools for Aspergers kids, in Victoria there are non. My partner only works with her four because they have other issues that are funded. Some of the teachers have taken it upon themselves to educate their class mates about the disorder and this has led to a decrease in the bullying. Unfortunately many of the teachers have little or no knowledge of aspergers.

Could you elaborate upon this (please) " ensuring freedom from harassment, flexible hours and social tolerance regulations.........."


You know, if you want to start a thread on this, workplace accommodations for making an AS-success out of a person who has difficulty working currently, it would be a great topic. And that would be another, really interesting way to explore people's thoughts on what traits are real disabling factors in their lives and which are assets.

Can't reply fully now, more later.



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16 Mar 2009, 3:47 pm

timeisdead wrote:
EvoVari wrote:

Not sure how self esteem is a reason for a person with AS/autism acknowledging their impairments and challenges in life. How can a person adjust or modify aspects of their personality/behaviour to succeed or exist comfortably in life without first understanding their different thinking. Some of us need Govt assistance and professional counselling to cope and adjust in society.


Let me guess.... we should whine about how weak we are and never accomplish anything in the world? We should sit and complain how "horrible" our condition is and not mention the strengths... and then have the audacity to complain about they condescending treatment we receive! Stop being a whiny loser and actually do something!


:roll: If you actually bothered to not only read but made also made a cursory attempt to understand the words EvoVari wrote, you would not have written the above paragraph.

Facing your issues is not being a whiny loser in fact it is incredibly confronting and takes a large amount of self esteem and courage. EvoVari is ACTUALLY DOING SOMETHING.


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garyww
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16 Mar 2009, 4:11 pm

I want everybody to know that I do all the good stuff as outlined by everybody who posted previously and that I am not whatever since I forgit what this thread was all about to begin with but I want to be on the good side of it as it goes down iunto the depths as every thread eventually does.


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Warsie
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16 Mar 2009, 8:07 pm

garyww wrote:
Sometimes people on the spectrum appear to be rather harsh on others because autistics in general are pretty thick skinned and insults or ridicule really don't bother us very much so we aren't aware of how sensitive and emotional normal people can be.


uh.....I think you have it the opposite way


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garyww
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16 Mar 2009, 9:42 pm

No I have it right.


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Liresse
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16 Mar 2009, 10:11 pm

garyww wrote:
I want everybody to know that I do all the good stuff as outlined by everybody who posted previously and that I am not whatever since I forgit what this thread was all about to begin with but I want to be on the good side of it as it goes down iunto the depths as every thread eventually does.
although you are quite disruptive to many wrongplanet threads, your posts are entertaining to me for some reason heh

on topic: elitism is a problem EVERYWHERE. wrongplanet, normalplanet, and myownplanet.

and the biggest problem about it is that either you don't want to admit that you are (and want to say other people are) or, if you do admit it, you're proud of it and refuse to change it.

and so on it goes.


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24 Nov 2009, 5:14 am

I find the concept of self esteem to be a little bogus. One Hundred years ago the concept that you were ineffective as a person because you didnt like yourself would be laughable.

Many very wealthy and successful people hate their own guts. It doesnt preclude immense success. It doesnt even act against it.

Self esteem isnt the same as self confidence or motivation. Or action.

In fact, the refusal to take your short comings to task is a great way to avoid ever having any confidence. It is that struggle to overcome - and this includes NTs just as much as us - ones deficiencies which builds a character inured to adversity.

And to do that, one must recognise themselves as not-good-enough. And to hell with whether than makes you happy or not. Just deal with it.


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24 Nov 2009, 5:33 am

Elitism?

Hell, until a few months ago I was pretty sure I was the only person on EARTH like I am.

I didn't even find out about Asperger's til this year, didn't realize I was an Aspy til shortly after that.

Didn't even know there was a site full of people who understand why I can't pay attention when the TV, washing machine, and traffic are all pounding in my ears too.


Did we forget that we get each other here?


Heck, I think the "favorite sensations" thread is my new favorite thing ever, reading it puts all sorts of great afterimages of those types of things in my head.


We've got strengths, we've got weaknesses, I've yet to even find someone I can fully discuss physics with that I didn't end up going over their head, I wish Einstein and Feynman were alive to geek with.

Yet I don't remember to take baths unless I feel sticky, or wash my clothes if they don't stink violently.


It isn't about being better than "just an Aspy", it's about reveling in the good sides of it. You think most people get the same indescribable satisfaction from the thought of jumping on a trampoline with pink floyd blasting in the background while it's pouring rain on a hot day?



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24 Nov 2009, 8:25 am

There is a dismaying elitism that looks to me like a side effect of a great strength that many Aspies have. IQ elitism. Since many people with Aspergers also have high IQs, sometimes very high IQs, the urge to put that strength on a pedestal is understandable. But sometimes it shades into elitism as the high-IQ person figures that superior intelligence=superior person in general (perhaps due to the unfortunate wording on IQ tests of "tests in 'superior range" rather than "tests in high range" which leads people to think they are "superior" overall). This isn't unique to Aspies. High IQ NTs do it too and when they do it makes me more furious than sad. But it seems especially saddening here because it gets used as a firewall to dissociate from anybody who did less well on an IQ test: the people with Low Functioning Autism. I can't possibly be objective about this because my daughter is one, and maybe other posters with LFA children or relatives will beg to differ, but I do see IQ elitism.



Last edited by Janissy on 24 Nov 2009, 8:27 am, edited 1 time in total.

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24 Nov 2009, 8:26 am

Quote:
Did we forget that we get each other here?


some people have known about AS for all their lives. It was their reality, their parent's reality, their health care provider's reality. Those people have never been in the position of not knowing, wondering why and if there is anyone else like us.

Our late diagnosis causes us to be a unique subset of Asperger's Syndrome. I am glad we are grateful for WP.

Merle


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Blindspot149
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24 Nov 2009, 10:24 am

In my opinion this is at best a loaded question or one that could have probably been better thought out.

WP is a community of many different types of people, personality and diagnoses.

No one here is really in any position to speak for WP other than Alex (and his team members)

The real question, if one wishes to pursue this line of thinking is perhaps something more like;

'What percentage of people posting on WP do YOU (the individual person voting/posting) think are 'elitist' (leaving out the definition of elitist, for simpicity sake)

I'm afraid I am not arrogant enough to speak for WP.

I certainly don't enjoy every post on WP and there are some posters whose contributions I actively avoid, but on balance, I find the vast majority of the community at WP to be very friendly and helpful group.

:wtg:


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