How come people with Aspergers can't work ?

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Sweetleaf
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13 Jul 2012, 8:03 pm

cavendish wrote:

I suggested a way to make up two thousand a year tax free, and you are not even interested in pursing this. Would you rather stare at the walls, and engage in self-pity?

Yeah I don't trust those internet sites...I can hardly even understand their terms of service hence the reason I've never tried making money that way. Also you must have really bad reading skills because I already said if I get on SSI it would be a temporary thing till I figure something else out...and if nothing else works out well whatever its my life not yours.

I would not spend my time staring at walls I'd do things I like and maybe stare at walls on occasion, and yeah sometimes I get down about things and down on myself its not as if I enjoy that. Maybe you should quit making asinine assumptions about people you don't even know, sincere desire to help my a** :roll:

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TheSunAlsoRises
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13 Jul 2012, 8:09 pm

CockneyRebel wrote:

How come people presume that people with AS can't work?

In my opinion, in general, there is a stigma placed on people labelled with a disability.

Society automatically assumes that either they can't work or that the work they produce is sub-par.

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CockneyRebel
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13 Jul 2012, 8:10 pm

I don't stare at the walls either. I also don't care for blanket terms. I've held down a factory job that I've hated for three years. I've held down my current job for 5 years. I'm also looking for a job that will take over the job that I have now. I only have three more months at that job before the contract with the company that I work with runs out, so I'm an Aspie and I intend to work instead of staring at the walls in self pity.

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Last edited by CockneyRebel on 14 Jul 2012, 6:55 am, edited 1 time in total.

TheSunAlsoRises
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13 Jul 2012, 8:22 pm

CockneyRebel wrote:

In so many ways, the Autism community reminds me of another community that I am a part of.

As a result, I'm going to try and choose my words, carefully.

As an individual, all you can do, is forge your own path and help when you can. BUT, i stress ... try to have a bit of understanding for those who are unable to do the things THAT you have done for whatever reason(s).

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13 Jul 2012, 8:34 pm

CyborgUprising wrote:

"You read alot into my post that wasn't there." Quite fascinating, Verdandi.
Here's some of the points you made and the conclusions that can be quite easily drawn. This isn't cherry-picking either; it encomapsses everything your post said, not just one small portion (like you neglecting to include where I said some persons with ASDs do qualify as being too disabled to work, instead only focusing on the part where I said not all persons with ASDs should be on disability).

you present yourself as having "AS, RA, and a broken leg that's never healed properly" and that you work despite being in pain all the time. Again, an attempt to call me a liar by saying I claim to have these conditions. When you use the word "claim" or "present(oneself)," the implicit meaning of the words are to convey a sense of disbelief. What purpose would it serve for me to lie about something like that? If I wanted to lie, I'd pretend I was an NT.

I had a reply here, but Tuttle explained things far better than I did, and probably more tactfully.

Last edited by Verdandi on 13 Jul 2012, 8:51 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Verdandi
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13 Jul 2012, 8:47 pm

cavendish wrote:

Sure, it can be difficult to find a suitable job. However, isn't disability for those who can't work at all? My sense is that so many people here have the ability to work ,and should go out there, and make a contribution to society.

No, disability isn't for those who can't work at all. Disability is for those who demonstrate that they can't work in existing jobs. And I suspect your sense is not as accurate as you make it out to be, as you seem to home in on people who say that they can't work.

Your connection of "working" to "making a contribution to society" is also false. You do not need to work in order to make a contribution. People contribute in a variety of ways. And their contributions do not need to be to some abstract notion of "society" (and I think most people who work are not contributing to such an abstract notion). They can be doing anything from taking care of feral cats to assisting relatives to assisting friends to blogging on important topics to volunteering to any number of things that may not come within visual difference of a paycheck.

Verdandi
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13 Jul 2012, 8:56 pm

CyborgUprising wrote:

I'm not caught up in emotions either. Now that's reading something into my posts that wasn't there. I'm not an emotional person, so please refrain from saying I'm "caught up in my emotions." I was indirectly called a liar and bully. You do not have to say "hey, you're a lying bully" to be called such. For example, one can say "hey, the crap he says is BS and he's acting like a d-bag," which is another indirect (though less ambiguous) way of calling someone a liar and bully. Ever heard of "beating around the bush?" You don't have to say in plain words what you feel about someone; many people don't. Who would be doing the "bullying" then in Verdandi's reply? That's right, it's us three. You can still extract that information from the post. I don't only take things literally, so I can see the implied meaning in the statement.

Tuttle's interpretation of what I wrote is fairly accurate. If you're looking for implied meanings, I'm sorry, but I don't do that very well. If you want to rephrase my statements into meaning things I did not say, then you are essentially having an argument with yourself over how to interpret my post, and at that point my participation is not particularly relevant, since my own intentions in posting what I did will apparently not even be considered in your interpretation.

Also, Tuttle didn't say you were caught up in emotions. She said "if you are caught up in emotions, then..." This only applies if it's true.

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13 Jul 2012, 9:01 pm

CyborgUprising wrote:

Well, if others are saying the same thing, isn't that a sign that perhaps one should look at the way they type. The only people thus far who dislike me with a passion are yourself, her and Apple in my Eye. That's only three out of thousands of users. Also, in admitting the reason for using "if," you still show a disbelief in regards to my comment that I'm not consumed by emotions (if you knew me as well as you say you know Verdandi, you would know I am telling the truth).

I have never stated any dislike for you. [b]I posted the other day that I find you fairly reasonable[b], but that I disagree with what you posted in this thread.

Also, saying "if you're consumed by emotion" does not indicate disbelief. It indicates that "if you are consumed by emotion, this may be true." If you are not consumed by emotion, then it's not relevant and can be dismissed.

Rascal77s
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13 Jul 2012, 9:10 pm

cavendish wrote:

My sense is that so many people here have the ability to work ,and should go out there, and make a contribution to society.

Your sense is telling you that because you're not paying attention to what people are telling you. You're making judgements based on how people communicate on an internet forum. Writing on a forum, with no time pressure, the ability to correct errors before posting, cut off from sound and visual distractions, and only one direction of communication at a time is not an accurate measure of how the person will be able to interact offline. You can't say, "oh that person writes reasonably well, he must be able to work". The reason Autism has such high unemployment, even by the standards of other 'disabilities', is because it is a cocktail of many conditions, that each alone, would cause a person difficulty in living a 'normal' life. Start listening to what these people are telling you instead of focusing on how well they type.

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13 Jul 2012, 9:19 pm

CyborgUprising wrote:

Neither of us are the "mild, can pass as NT" that the stereotype of Asperger's is.
I find it somewhat humorous that you act like I have no clue what autism is when by your own admission, you don't even know me. I know enough people with it to know what it is. It's not an excuse to say that people/what they say are lies without any sufficient evidence to prove the person a liar.

Tuttle said that she and I are autistic and do not have subtle manifestations.

Neither Tuttle nor I accused you of lying.

Quote:

I can't change the way I communicate for you, nor do I want to. I won't risk completely ruining my semblance of sanity I have for a random person on the internet. I doubt that she can either.
I never said to. I said if many people are complaining about you, there's probably some logical basis for their views. I never said change yourself. It's you, Verdandi and Apple in my Eye who want me to change/conform to your views, and you want to censor me. Tough. It's not going to happen.

I would prefer it if people stopped insisting to specific people that they should try to work even when they can't or even when they know the consequences will be bad. I don't want to censor anyone, and it strikes me as strange that this is the conclusion you've drawn. I stated my disagreement with you and explained it, and I apologize that I used words that offended you.

Quote:

However, I've never even said anything about disliking you. I never said you did. I can logically gather that you don't, since obviously you think everything I say is an outright lie or is offensive. I'm sure you wouldn't say your friend Verdandi says anything controversial. I couldn't give two s-ts if you dislike me. I tell the truth and you and your group of friends dislikes hearing what isn't a popular thing to say.

I say a lot of controversial things. One of those things happens to be "if someone is applying for SSI or SSDI, then odds are they have a fairly good reason for doing so." Something that isn't controversial is complaining about people receiving benefits, as it's a popular political pastime in the US, the UK, Australia, probably several parts of Europe. When one says that people should be more willing to work while not understanding the circumstances said people may be living with, then one is aligning themselves with fairly conventional right wing talking points.

Quote:

You can reply, telling me how evil I am all you want, just refrain from implying in any way that I am a liar or bully, because those are two things I am not (I'm also not conservative in the political/religious sense). You can say I am radical, unpopular, blunt or controversial all you want; it won't bend me to your desired will.

Don't be melodramatic. No one's called you evil, no one's called you a liar. I pointed out you were agreeing with bullying behavior. Your statements are not radical, unpopular, or controversial, and I think most of us are blunt on this forum. You may not be conservative yourself, but you agreed with some very popular conservative talking points.

Last edited by Verdandi on 13 Jul 2012, 9:37 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Verdandi
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13 Jul 2012, 9:24 pm

Tuttle wrote:

I don't dislike you. I do not think everything you say is a lie. I have never said anything you've said is a lie. I don't think Verdandi always says things right and don't always agree with her.

I'd be worried if anyone did think I always say things right. I certainly don't think I always say things right, but it's not something I usually notice while I'm saying or writing it. I can and have screwed up in large and small ways trying to make my point known, often because I use words that do more to occlude my intended meaning than to clarify it, usually because of how people react to them. "Bullying" is one such word in this thread, apparently, but there have been occasions I've accidentally ruined friendships because of this, both online and offline.

Rascal77s
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13 Jul 2012, 9:29 pm

Verdandi wrote:

and I think most of us are blunt on this forum.

And some of us have to smoke a blunt to get through the more ignorant posts on this forum *cough* *caughendish* *cough*

Tuttle is a she?

Tuttle
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13 Jul 2012, 9:35 pm

Rascal77s wrote:

Tuttle is a she?

People seem to be surprised by this pretty often. Generally people in chat rooms assume I'm about 30 years old and male.

Verdandi
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14 Jul 2012, 1:35 am

CyborgUprising wrote:

Well, if others are saying the same thing, isn't that a sign that perhaps one should look at the way they type.

If this was about the way I type, I can't change the way I think about communication to adapt to other people and expect to be able to communicate coherently. I do have a set of rules about phrases to avoid, and I try to maintain that, but I cannot predict or take into account every possible off-the-wall interpretation of what I write while I'm writing it. If I tried, I wouldn't be able to write anything useful.

This is something I run into all too frequently here - a suggestion to just change the way one communicates or functions or thinks to accommodate other people, without an acknowledgment as to the difficulty of such a task, nor the degree of cognitive overhead this would require, nor the impact this would have on other aspects of communication and overall functioning.

opal
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14 Jul 2012, 2:22 am

Tuttle wrote:

Rascal77s wrote:

Tuttle is a she?

People seem to be surprised by this pretty often. Generally people in chat rooms assume I'm about 30 years old and male.

I figured you were female, but also thought you were quite a bit older. You write with more maturity than some people here twice your age (myself included :oops:

)

VisInsita
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14 Jul 2012, 2:49 am

Tuttle wrote:

VisInsita wrote:

Those of you who would like to work, but feel that you are unable or unfit to work, what are the main reasons according to you? What could be done for you to be able to work? What would that require from the working life? How we could change it?

I have severe sensory issues. If I could get a 100% telecommute job that didn't require using a phone, as my first job, or if I could get a job where the environment is specifically built to be sensory friendly (like no florescent lights, good sound insulation, and such), and the people are explicitly sensory friendly, including explicitly no perfumes, no smoking (not none around me, no smokers at all period, no coming out of cars that smokers use, nothing of the sort), only sensory friendly cleaners used and not around me and so on... then my biggest challenge would be overcame.

This is a rather huge challenge though.

Then we get into the rest of them.

Partly this could be done. Part you’d still have to do yourself.

Your smell sensitivities sound very serious and restrictive. How do you manage to shop and run the necessary errands with such a severe issues and requirements for your environment? Do you get help? Do you cut off all the people with a hint of cigarette smell or perfume in their clothes from your life?

And to avoid the misunderstandings this thread is built on, I do understand that some are not able to work.

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